Raising the bar - part II

[Stonigut]

I hear that but I don't buy it at all. I understand that some leagues may be better for some but bottom line is we playing ball or whatever we doing, and if it is your job, if it dont fit, mek it fit, adapt your game, wha we used to say "when time tuff Pinckney shut fit" well so it is. Btw if Lowe went to Mexican league it would have been a disaster, at least the structure of the English game worked for him and he produced at a prodigious rate in both ELO 1 and 2, converting at a 70 percent rte in elo2 and 62percent in ELO 1 in two of his best years, numbers no Jamaican have seen in any pro league in England, Europe, Africa, Americas anywhere since. His Breakdown there was his deal, no one else's.

[Sir X]

Lowe was prolific in every league except NPL ? explain that ! why would you think Lowe couldnt adapt in Mexico,Lowe was by all account an excellent utility player, who could play in any position, one two ball game was his forte.You didnt see what he did to Uraquay in the office with JJ ?

Jamaica didnt have a midfield to exploit his better attributes.Point is a player not excelling in a league might be down to other mitigating factors e.g Tevez and Mascherano , Alan Pardew benched both for almost an entire season saying he believed they could not handle the rigours of the english game , only to play Tevez to save West ham from relegation, and sold Maschi and Tevez when they avoided relegation to Liverpool and Man U , the rest is history.

Back to Lowe ask anyone he was average in NPL!Kemar daley is the real deal, no one comes off a bench and changes the complexion of a game against the USA and Honduras only to be written off because of a bad english season!

[Zeppo]

Lowe was prolific in every league except NPL

He was nothing special in MLS.

[Sir X]

To you ,thats why they refused to release him and slapped a million dollar transfer fee on his head.

[Karl]

We have choice Karl, we are being reactive on the use of the player strainer, we are waiting for pearls to emerge, rather than improving the entire pearl creation process. Our pearls are odd shaped, inconsistent some slow some fast some sorta skilled but we re not creating consistent crops through a defined process, we can do this.

I am a believer!

[Stonigut]

Not that he wouldn't adapt on the ball side, on the living side it may have been tough in a number of ways. In npl I remember him playing more defense than forward he was a standout in that regard, if memory serves me well.

X just remember that this is my main point, that any of these guys can have one brilliant game per month, the main point is we don't want no samples we want consistent production read"......season after season of excellent production, that is what we are after we won't improve out of our mediocre place unless we get that improvement? No one doubts that we produce good talent, but when yuh lick the big leagues everybody have talent, talent is then separated by one thing, PRODUCTION, that's it!!

Nobody is writing him off, we can't do that anyway, it is all in his court, what I am saying is him fail the critical first test, the hill only get steeper from here, playing in a 3rd division side that wasn't even the best side was a great start point he should have crushed it. He is now going to have to take serious stock and figure out what must be improved to move forward and have a decent career. Based on fundamental performance criteria he should not have shot at the National team at this point and all others that are playing consistently at their club and producing results should be first in that line.

[Karl]

Here is one of the best ideas the JFF have come up with?

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport...today_11451213

Good marketing idea!
Building fan base is great!
Am sure JFF has plans to pick out those with potential that will allow molding into good players.

[Zeppo]

To you

To me and to many others who don't consider 4 goals in 13 games to be "prolific".

[Sir X]

I get your point but I hope you get my point , other mitigating factors as I mentioned above,should be taken into account by all ,agent , player and critics.A team isnt only about 11 players on the field , it consists of a holistic enviroment of coaches, manager, mds, nutritionist, culture , etc etc.Our players need to source other avenues to develop that are just as good as england , some might even work out better.

[Don1]

Quote:
An unsuccessful first season at Preston North End is hardly the arbiter of a player's ability imho

Above quote as per Don1, this may be true, but when you are selecting a side whether for national duty or for the possibility of improving your club then nobody cares about the possibilities of a particular players worth except his family and fans, the only thing they see is a Jamaican capped player failing at a 3rd div club, you know what conclusion they draw from that!?

The real truth is he probably should never have been selected for national duty but that is the state of our game, our best players are third div quality aT best 2nd div and you know what, that has pretty much been borne out by most of our players (national) that have played there fuller and gardener being the exception.

LOL... all this pontificating about a player you admit not to have seen.

Apart from mediocre football...Jamaicans are also well versed in careless, unsubstantiated bluster...based on lack of knowledge.. Go figure

[Don1]

..but it certainly gives info on the particular moment in time! ...i.e. conclusions arrived at after that 1st year. Right?

Conclusion? The only supportable conclusion here is that the player is not a good fit for that club at this time under the particular manager and what the fellow perceives to be the requirement of the club

Going beyond that absent any other info is quite foolish imho

If one..even one of those issues you mentioned rates the player not wanted it equates - Not Good Enough! i.e. His ability was not such to cause mitigation in his favour = Not Good Enough!

The excuses thing does not cut it!



..anyway you look at it he just is Not Good Enough to 'force' PNE to retain him!!!

It is simple really - We need players who by preformance DEMAND SELECTION! The only 'out' would he is so good PNE wants *'good' transfer fee for him.

*'good' = It makes business sense to 'sell him on' at a profit ('fat profit')! That of course is the opposite of it makes 'good' sense to off-load him because the player's quality is less than that needed in team!.

If you choose to use that manager's decision not to retain the player to be a definitive assessment of him that's entirely your prerogative.

I guess that type of reaction is entirely in line with the unwarranted adoration many hold for kick and run English football... more like tennis. No wonder that country is a 2nd tier performer...they don't play the game as it should be played despite the vast sums invested there in football.

What Jamaica needs is players who play well FOR JAMAICA... not those whose qualification is that they can hold a place in a particular English situation. That notion is a recipe for continued mediocrity.

Our recent history is replete with English players who look quite ordinary in Jamaican colors...and also local players who perform well once given a chance.

The genuflection to these English players is really quite backward

[Don1]

I am not completely writing him off, but I am saying that if I were Tappa, I would not look his way again until he fought his way back into a strong role in a championship team, that is all, and now he is a far way from that.

You are so way off base on this it isn't even funny.

What a way man cyan worship English ball...LOL

[Stonigut]

Come on now, no matter how you may be leaning on this issue, the bottom line is that if you fail, you fail, there is no getting around that. If I failed my common entrance exam I could not have gone to Calabar, if I did not pass my a levels I could not have gone to uwi, no matter how bright and talented I may have been, that is how we test people you must step into the cauldron of fire and get tested, well my man stepped into the cauldron and failed On a 3rd div side. Call it Nuh man, I know yuh is a Upper hope road man but you have to step up to the facts even though is a fellow Upper hope road man too.


The cardinal sin we continue to repeat is thinking a guy can play badly at club level and come into the national team and be a star, practice makes perfect, yuh can't turn the juice on and off when yuh feel like it, give me the guys dominating and contributing everyday at a pro club level and I wilL show you a side that can compete and bring results on a consistent basis in concacaf.

[Don1]

Stonigut;356343]Come on now, no matter how you may be leaning on this issue, the bottom line is that if you fail, you fail, there is no getting around that. If I failed my common entrance exam I could not have gone to Calabar,

Oh...I see. Those who fail Common Entrance are no good and should be discarded by virtue of failure.

Bad analogy...bad philosophy. Period

if I did not pass my a levels I could not have gone to uwi, no matter how bright and talented I may have been, that is how we test people you must step into the cauldron of fire and get tested, well my man stepped into the cauldron and failed On a 3rd div side. Call it Nuh man, I know yuh is a Upper hope road man but you have to step up to the facts even though is a fellow Upper hope road man too.

What I'm saying to you..which you acknowledge to be true...is that you don't have the info to be definitive about the player having not even seen his play and being ignorant of the circumstances... but you do have the option to speculate which is your prerogative.

To say that Daley or any other player who doesn't succeed in a foreign kick and run environment after 8 months should by virtue of that NOT be considered for national duty is plain rubbish...imho ...worse when one comments on a player based on ignorance of the specific facts

What players contribute to the Jamaica team is far more important and often completely unrelated to foreign trials

There are more than sufficient examples to establish that fact

The cardinal sin we continue to repeat is thinking a guy can play badly at club level and come into the national team and be a star, practice makes perfect, yuh can't turn the juice on and off when yuh feel like it, give me the guys dominating and contributing everyday at a pro club level and I wilL show you a side that can compete and bring results on a consistent basis in concacaf.

Wrong,

The cardinal sin Jamaica has made and continues today to make is to fail to put in the systems to develop young players....knowing that we can turn to English journeymen to paper over some of the cracks.

Full time wi leggo dat English crutch and the bankrupt philosophy behind it...it's actually retarding our growth

Memba mi tole yuh

[Stonigut]

Nonono, those who fail, wheel and come back again even harder, that is the philosophy we want to teach, "them think sey me done, we'll me just a come" that is what I am preaching "mah brotha"

Acknowledge failure when it happens and wheel and come back harder, if we place blame firstly on our selves then we will take our the "eternal excuse of everything and everybody but ourselves syndrome"

Finally you are right, the uk born pro ballers are a bandaid, but the truth is it will be a long time before we can wean ourselves off that dope, as we are not building the parallel systems in ball like we have in track where everything is measured to the nth degree and the standards for excellence are well known and propagated across the entire country. Technically our yard ballers are still at the bottom of the barrel