Suh what? None of the cheerleaders

[Karl]

Who? The unthinking people that look for any reason to vote PNP?

I have said it before...but, you have discount what I said. I shall repeat for you...

The JLP was able to present 'growth figures' on the backs of severely stunting %age growth of the middle class and the poor. There was a conscious effort to deny access to those outside what was looked on as the 'upper classes' to upward mobility.

Every era we have had where there has been wholesale movement of the masses upward mobility has occurred under the PNP.

From the introduction of an opening to the masses of more and more places in the secondary high schools in 1957 (I benefitted (in 1957)...my family benefitted every last brother and sister who were below that cut-off age...and all our cousins and, I would wager a guess all of us here have benefitted over the years from that opening of the door to secondary education - which, incidentally, we have all now taken for granted) to Patterson's crass "more gal, more car, more phone"...speaks to more and more of those of us who previously were excluded from joining in any process of upward mobility walking in/joining in.

Many are those now who believe the JLP is better suited to move us forward...and, they may be right...forget where we are coming from and what held during successive JLP and PNP reigns as far as moving masses of our people towards higher and higher economic status and upward mobility.

Again, Lazie: I saw with only facts on my side - PNP governments have propelled more...vastly more of us upwards. PNP governments have had profound effects...positive propulsion to speed onwards ability of vast numbers of our people on a path of upward mobility.

The so-called terrible education system is the bedrock of that upward mobility. I wonder if any here ever wonder what state the country would be in...where we would be were it not for the opening of the secondary schools to our children? Where would the vast majority of the current middle-class be? ...what has this education system done for us to enable the thousands who go on to higher educcation and other forms of training?

Did the background first give - access to secondary education and improved quality of education at earlier stages...secondly - did the quality of the education provided prove to be a great platform to further education and training and therefore continued upwards mobility?

Repeat: Some say, the JLP were able to 'show' growth at the cost of 'keeping us in our places'.

[Lazie]

Karl ... you know say me respect yuh, but there is a time when mi affi call a spade a spade. Yuh chatting bull5hit Karl.

The US Congress Library stated that during the 1980s when the Quality of Life index was done Jamaica was ranked up there with T&T. Suh what you and other comrades talking is 5hit. Get real..

[Mosiah]

Proof please! Thanks!

[Lazie]

Proof please! Thanks!

What different would it mek? I've been providing proof time and again and all unuh duh is mek some comical excuse to side step it. Then again, when thinking people talk, unthinking people should simply listen.

Most Jamaicans enjoyed a relatively high quality of life when compared with their neighbors. For example, in the early 1980s, Jamaica's physical-quality-of-life index computed by the Overseas Development Council was higher than that of Mexico and Venezuela and equal to that of Trinidad and Tobago. http://countrystudies.us/caribbean-islands/24.htm

[Mosiah]

Which part of that you want me to read, Lazie? Because much of it is not very flattering for the adminisration of Eddie Seaga in the 1980's!

Thanks still!

[Muadib]

Which part of that you want me to read, Lazie? Because much of it is not very flattering for the adminisration of Eddie Seaga in the 1980's!

Thanks still!

Thanks to that damn idiot Manley...

It is really regrettable that we ended up with leaders totally prepared to manipulate the people to hold power, yet totally unprepared to govern and grow an economy and provide a healthy environment for people.. that is the curse of Jamaica and it is called the PNP.

[Mosiah]

In fact, allow me to post the very article for the benefit of the forumites.

ECONOMY

Caribbean Islands Table of Contents
Jamaica is a middle-income, oil-importing country that attempted diverse economic development strategies during the 1970s and 1980s. Jamaica had the second largest GDP of the Commonwealth Caribbean, behind only Trinidad and Tobago, an oil-exporter. The island's GDP for 1985 was US$1.7 billion, or US$940 per capita. The major sectors of the economy were bauxite (see Glossary) and alumina (see Glossary), tourism, manufacturing, and agriculture. Bauxite and alumina, in particular, set the pace of Jamaica's postwar economic growth through new investment and foreign exchange earnings. Bauxite production declined rapidly in Jamaica in the 1980s, however, because of the prolonged recession in the world aluminum industry, global oversupply, and the departure of multinational producers. Tourism declined in the 1970s, but recovered between 1980 and 1986, thus becoming the second most important sector of the economy. Manufacturing, a quite diversified sector, underwent structural changes in the 1980s when production was refocused on exports rather than on the domestic market. Agriculture, the heart of the Jamaican economy for centuries, has been in relative decline since World War II.

Jamaica enjoyed rapid growth rates during the 1950s and 1960s as the bauxite industry boomed. Real GDP growth averaged about 4.5 percent during these two decades. Economic growth was sporadic and weak from 1972 to 1986, however. Indeed, the Jamaican economy did not register two consecutive years of significant growth during that period. Between 1973 and 1980, the island experienced seven consecutive years of negative growth. The economic downturn in the 1970s demonstrated the highly mobile nature of both labor and capital in Jamaica, as skilled labor and investment capital left the island. The democratic socialist government of Michael Manley from 1972 to 1980 was popularly blamed for the poor performance during the 1970s (see Political Dynamics, this ch.). Nevertheless, Manley's successor and conservative political opponent, Edward Seaga, was also unable to turn the economy around during his first six years in office. The economy experienced sporadic and unsustained growth in the early 1980s. GDP declined by 4.5 percent in 1985 but rose again in 1986 by more than 2 percent. In the mid1980s , the Jamaican economy was about where it was in 1980 in terms of real GDP. Negative growth in the 1980s was generally attributed to the acute decline in the world bauxite market.

Most Jamaicans enjoyed a relatively high quality of life when compared with their neighbors. For example, in the early 1980s, Jamaica's physical-quality-of-life index computed by the Overseas Development Council was higher than that of Mexico and Venezuela and equal to that of Trinidad and Tobago. Nevertheless, Jamaica still suffered from severe social problems resulting from the skewed distribution of the country's wealth, often said to be the legacy of colonialism and slavery. For example, in 1960 the top 20 percent of society received 61 percent of the national income, and after independence income distribution continued to worsen. Land tenure was also highly inequitable. In 1961, the year before independence, 10 percent of the population owned 64 percent of the land; this pattern continued in the 1970s, despite the implementation of a land reform program. Less than 1 percent of the country's farms covered about 43 percent of the land in 1978. Jamaicans in urban areas had much more access to piped water, sanitary plumbing facilities, and high quality health care than their rural counterparts. These disparities in income and service were believed to have widened even more as a result of the austere economic policies of the 1980s.

Jamaica was hardly immune from the structural economic problems affecting other developing countries in the era. Beginning in the mid-1970s, inflation was generally double-digit, caused primarily by the increase in world oil prices, expansionary fiscal policies, and entrenched labor unions. Chronic unemployment and recession coexisted with high inflation during the 1970s, causing stagflation. Unemployment averaged roughly 25 percent during the 1975-85 period, affecting women and urban youth the hardest. The country also faced rapid urbanization as economic opportunities in rural areas deteriorated. In 1960, about 34 percent of the island's population was considered urban, but by 1982 that figure had risen to about 48 percent as opportunities in rural areas declined. Like other countries in the Western hemisphere, Jamaica quickly compiled a large external debt in the 1970s and 1980s; by the end of 1986, it amounted to US$3.5 billion, one of the highest per capita debts in the world.

In the 1980s, Jamaica's economy was generally defined as free enterprise, although major sectors were government controlled. The PNP governments in the 1970s were the most active in increasing state ownership. Although some private companies were purchased, the more usual pattern was to create joint public-private enterprises or to increase government regulation of the private sector, especially of foreign multinationals. In the 1970s the state ownership was largely financed by a levy on bauxite production, introduced in 1974, and by deficit spending.

In 1980 Seaga was elected on a platform of denationalization and deregulation of the economy. In his first six years in office, however, Seaga achieved mixed results. Denationalization did occur in tourism and agriculture, but the role of government actually increased in oil refining and bauxite production after several large firms unexpectedly left the island. As of early 1987, the structural adjustment (see Glossary) of the economy was nearly completed and increased government divestments were forecast.

Jamaica's economy was rather open. Trade as a ratio of GDP was estimated to be over 50 percent in the 1970s, a percentage believed to be increasing in the 1980s. As part of structural adjustment policies to further open up the economy, the Jamaican dollar was devalued several times in the early 1980s. Although imports fell as a result, the country's overall trade deficit actually increased as prices collapsed for its major primary product exports, bauxite and sugar. The country's trade deficit rose to over US$500 million during 1985. The island's direction of trade changed, with a greater share going to the United States and less to the Caribbean Community and Common Market (Caricom--see Appendix C), particularly to Jamaica's major trading partner in the community, Trinidad and Tobago.

Growth and Structure of the Economy
Patterns of Development
Role of Government
National Income and Public Finance
Labor Force and Industrial Relations
Industry
Tourism
Banking, Financial Services, and Currency
Agriculture

For more recent information about the economy, see Facts about Jamaica.




Web countrystudies.us
Source: U.S. Library of Congress

[Mosiah]

That's not what I read in the article. Maybe it's just me.

[Lazie]

Which part of that you want me to read, Lazie? Because much of it is not very flattering for the adminisration of Eddie Seaga in the 1980's!

Thanks still!

Unless you have a comprehension problem. The articles indcated there were 7 years of negative growth under Manley ... unuh expect Seaga to be a miracle worker? Yuh asked for proof about the Quality of Life Index, yet yuh side step it.

[Lazie]

That's not what I read in the article. Maybe it's just me.

Mosiah, yuh brighter than that!

[Mosiah]

Is dis yuh want mi to talk about?

"Most Jamaicans enjoyed a relatively high quality of life when compared with their neighbors. For example, in the early 1980s, Jamaica's physical-quality-of-life index computed by the Overseas Development Council was higher than that of Mexico and Venezuela and equal to that of Trinidad and Tobago. Nevertheless, Jamaica still suffered from severe social problems resulting from the skewed distribution of the country's wealth, often said to be the legacy of colonialism and slavery. For example, in 1960 the top 20 percent of society received 61 percent of the national income, and after independence income distribution continued to worsen. Land tenure was also highly inequitable. In 1961, the year before independence, 10 percent of the population owned 64 percent of the land; this pattern continued in the 1970s, despite the implementation of a land reform program. Less than 1 percent of the country's farms covered about 43 percent of the land in 1978. Jamaicans in urban areas had much more access to piped water, sanitary plumbing facilities, and high quality health care than their rural counterparts. These disparities in income and service were believed to have widened even more as a result of the austere economic policies of the 1980s."

What's there to show off about?

[Lazie]

Is dis yuh want mi to talk about?

"Most Jamaicans enjoyed a relatively high quality of life when compared with their neighbors. For example, in the early 1980s, Jamaica's physical-quality-of-life index computed by the Overseas Development Council was higher than that of Mexico and Venezuela and equal to that of Trinidad and Tobago. Nevertheless, Jamaica still suffered from severe social problems resulting from the skewed distribution of the country's wealth, often said to be the legacy of colonialism and slavery. For example, in 1960 the top 20 percent of society received 61 percent of the national income, and after independence income distribution continued to worsen. Land tenure was also highly inequitable. In 1961, the year before independence, 10 percent of the population owned 64 percent of the land; this pattern continued in the 1970s, despite the implementation of a land reform program. Less than 1 percent of the country's farms covered about 43 percent of the land in 1978. Jamaicans in urban areas had much more access to piped water, sanitary plumbing facilities, and high quality health care than their rural counterparts. These disparities in income and service were believed to have widened even more as a result of the austere economic policies of the 1980s."

What's there to show off about?

Thats it? Irrespective of all that OUR QUALITY OF LIFE WAS TOPS IN THE CARIBBEAN AND LATIN AMERICA.

[Mosiah]

Oh, so it's just the raw stats you care about!? Well, just like charisma, I don't believe you could exchange that for grocery.

[Karl]

Karl ... you know say me respect yuh, but there is a time when mi affi call a spade a spade. Yuh chatting bull5hit Karl.

The US Congress Library stated that during the 1980s when the Quality of Life index was done Jamaica was ranked up there with T&T. Suh what you and other comrades talking is 5hit. Get real..

I do not care one fig for what anyone says...I lived through a Jamaica where I know where my grandparents and my parents, myself and my children had direct positive benefits from the PNP's 'liberalisation of education'!

I know what that access to education brought to my family and the families of friends, acquaintances and neighbours. I know what NW Manley stood for and brought to the table...I know what changes Michael Manley made in thinking and lives of our people.

I know what happened during the Seaga years as it relates to access to what is termed the 'commanding heights of the economy'.

The expansion of financial institutions and creation of so many of the current list of companies; whose rule do you think the greatest occured under?

The boom in housing and construction; under whose rule that occurred?

As to running water...whose rule brought about the greatest reduction in 'carry water innah pan pan ead'? Who introduced a massive tank building program...with access to money to build same?

Who introduced the greatest expansion in deliver of water supply systems?

You may speak of the inadequacy of the current systems...but, dwag wudda nyaam wi supper if it was not a PNP to improve on deliver of water to households.

...I could go on and on about some of our other goodies introduced by the PNP.

...am I saying that once the PNP had started the process in some of these areas the Labour Party did not maintain and make improvements? No!

I am saying it is my experience that if "putting people first" is the mantra the PNP leads by 'miles'.

[Lazie]

Karl, you refer to yuhself as a comrade first and a Jamaican afterwards. You've stated "the figures may be true but no black dwag fi monkey fi me!" What else would you say? You lack anything called objectivity so gwaan fool yuhself.