I would like to analyze Brucie's

[Karl]

G,

Several things.

1) I resent being called Labourite or PNP for that matter. I consider myself ABOVE the monkey business I see portrayed. However, like everyone, I have the right to choose what Karl calls the lesser evil. Given the record of the PNP Govt in the last 18 years, it is a no-brainer...despite coming from long time Daddy Manley PNP roots. Daddy Manley on balance was the best politician we have had in our history.

What is best for JAMAICA is what I crave...I have no undying loyalty to any.

2) Off-shore banking and financial centres are not necessarily the same things. We could develop a hedge fund centre, and insurance centre, a private banking centre, a mutual funds centre and many other flavors or combinations thereof.

3) The Trafigura scandal DOES have the potential to hurt this development, but an even bigger threat is Jamaican's propensity to gossip and NOT keep secrets. The raiding of Olint, the politicized Central Bank and general financial mismanagement are even greater deterrents. Regarding the Trafigura incident and the red herring of banking secrets broken, I can only give a telling analogy.

Is it not true that in almost ALL Financial centres, there exists an obligation to REPORT suspected money laundering?? Where does one find ABSOLUTE banking secrecy?? Certainly NOT in Switzerland! They have treaties with the US. Maybe Austria as banking secrecy is embedded in their CONSTITUTION. Did you know that UBS Private banking employees have been recently found to be ripping off their clients, who are now suing the Bank? There is a $200K fine for leaking banking scerets in Switz, along with jail time, so legislation and enforcement does go a long way.

Finally, there is the MORAL question. Does banking secrecy trump whistle-blowing? In the UK, the Trafigura scandal would probably be viewed as HIGH TREASON!! This is an exceedingly serious matter, if the Govt is seen to be in the pocket of a foreign entity. An ABSOLUTE breach of trust and sovereignty. This perfidy trumps secrecy in my books. This alone should have brought down the Govt and tells me that our system is broken.

Addendum,
Though Switz was officially neutral in WW2, there was complicity. Proof of this is that UBS and other Swiss Banks had to repay $1.5B to a pot to compensate Jewish depositors. Their money was stolen by the banks. Dont think that Off shore banking equals purity, very often the opposite is true.

Good chat, sah!
As I have said before what I dislike about the political operatives is the constant giving of half of the truth to the people.

Look at Mark Wignall and Wilmot "Mutty" Perkins...in fairness to them the avenue they use does not allow for complete discussion of the issues...but, too often they give only one side and too often they are, if not outright liars dangerously near to being out-and-out liars as they carefully choose the manner in which they deliver 'their truth'. In fact, in Mark's case some of his 'personal stories' can be said to strain credibility.

[Muadib]

Good chat, sah!
As I have said before what I dislike about the political operatives is the constant giving of half of the truth to the people.

Look at Mark Wignall and Wilmot "Mutty" Perkins...in fairness to them the avenue they use does not allow for complete discussion of the issues...but, too often they give only one side and too often they are, if not outright liars dangerously near to being out-and-out liars as they carefully choose the manner in which they deliver 'their truth'. In fact, in Mark's case some of his 'personal stories' can be said to strain credibility.

Motty always asks his critics to indicate one lie he has told..

Can you furnish us with some of the Litany ?

[Lazie]

Good chat, sah!
As I have said before what I dislike about the political operatives is the constant giving of half of the truth to the people.

Look at Mark Wignall and Wilmot "Mutty" Perkins...in fairness to them the avenue they use does not allow for complete discussion of the issues...but, too often they give only one side and too often they are, if not outright liars dangerously near to being out-and-out liars as they carefully choose the manner in which they deliver 'their truth'. In fact, in Mark's case some of his 'personal stories' can be said to strain credibility.

Karl, fi a man that admits to being corrupt, you in no position fi question the IJJ! Suh easy. If any a unuh feel wha the IJJ say a lie, step up nuh? Then again, what unuh know bout the truth?

[Muadib]

Agreed 100%...but, it also means we must be careful...very careful on when...

...and the how of,

...and about what matter/topic/event that leads to delving into and revealing what under normal circumstances should remain secret and safe.

Jawge is on solid grounds when he says Goldings actions will give, at the very least, some holders (persons and entities) of worthwhile funds pause.

You mean criminals ? Coke Dealers ? Those that seek to corrupt ?

Who exactly will pause when they see the Trafigura Affair ?

What has been the effect on the banking sector since the Trafigura Affair ?

Do you have any emprical evidence of this 'pause' you speak of ? Will this also affect the Banks offices in other countries in the Region ? Or are those countries politicians above such disgraceful actions as revealing 'leaked' information on corrupt acts being perpetrated ?

I suppose you believe the information should have been given to the Minister of Justice to handle expeditiously !

LOL !! WHOEEE !!

I am curious, what would you and Jawge recommend an opposition leader do when presented with such evidence of Govt corruption ?

[Karl]

Motty always asks his critics to indicate one lie he has told..

Can you furnish us with some of the Litany ?

He always speaks of the "Nigerian oil money" cheques that 'the government' has drawn and money mishandled when he speaks of the total sum Trafigura receives on selling oil traded using Jamaica's prefered allotment.

The truth is Jamaica collects money. Jamaica does not pay one single solitary cent for purchasing any oil under the Nigeria sold-Trafigura bought/traded oil.

Are you now going to ask me for another?

[Muadib]

He always speaks of the "Nigerian oil money" cheques that 'the government' has drawn and money mishandled when he speaks of the total sum Trafigura receives on selling oil traded using Jamaica's prefered allotment.

The truth is Jamaica collects money. Jamaica does not pay one single solitary cent for purchasing any oil under the Nigeria sold-Trafigura bought/traded oil.

Are you now going to ask me for another?

No, I am going to try and verify what you have said.. I cannot make heads or tails of it.

Yuh have man in here claiming people have sole liquor license fi Scotch in Jamaica and utlizing this license to sell out of the back of a container.. suh, mi haffi tek everyting with a pound of salt...

Motty Perkins runs a 'Thinking Man' program suh something might have been lost in yuh translation..

[Willi]

But Karl,

Go read my response. THAT IS WHAT I SAID. IN FACT YOU SEEM TO BE AGREEING WITH MY POSITION 100%!!!

[Willi]

Good Question.