I am too much of a capitalist to understand this...

[HL]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7492911.html

...or maybe as someone explained...this can only work in a society that is socially cohesive. And that the Finns are way ahead in this aspect

Islandman, sorry to disturb your chrismuss...but your thoughts please.

Thanks.

[Peter R]

Watch "Requiem for the American Dream" ~ A Noam Chomsky documentary. It's on Netflix, if you have it.

[Islandman]

Well it's an idea that has been getting some traction in intellectual circles as a way to correct for the rising inequities in the developed world. The argument is that perhaps capitalism as we know it cannot be sustained in an economy where human labor is becoming less valuable and at some point the working class will rebel. Brexit and Trump could be precursors to what may happen in the developed world if this issue is not addressed in some unconventional ways.

But is a guaranteed income the solution? i have issues with it because of the risk of creating a permanent dependent class. However in a highly educated and homogenous society like Finland and the Scandinavian countries have it might work, at least in the short term as a way to ease the disruptive pain that globalization and automation are causing.

In somewhere like the US that has a different political culture and a history of large numbers of immigrants arriving with nothing and working up from there, I don't see it having a chance of getting support any time soon. Americans are skeptical about universal health care, no way are they ready for this.

As it relates to disadvantaged communities and developing countries I would much prefer to see massive spending on education, training and social programs that help working poor than to go this route. I wouldn't look kindly on the govt taking my money and giving it to someone else, no strings attached. Take it to send a youth to learn a trade, fine. Take it to build a community center fine. But take it and give to a thug or a hippie so he/she can smoke weed all day and go to the club at night? Hell no.

[Peter R]

...and yet the govt. gives humongous handouts (bailout, tax breaks) to the already rich so they can get even richer ..

[Sir X]

Xactly it's for rich Nordic nations- socialism for the rich. Looking at it Finland would be a 1% nation ,where the other 99% of the third and developing world pays for their life style by being taxed through multi nationals, IMF/ WB loans and jacked up energy prices I.e oil.

Capitalism is a fraud or Babylon system is a vampire.
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=U__GY0jnem8

[Islandman]

For me tax breaks are a mixed bag. I can support them if they are targeted in a way to increase growth and investment and ultimately increase the total revenue collected. Excessive taxation has many downsides.

Bailouts are another matter, that is corporate welfare that encourages reckless behavior.

[Sir X]

Why is socialism OK when practiced by Europeans ,yet a war cry for the third and developing world when tthey try to provide for its citizens ,e.g Finland, England and France ?

[Assasin]

One of the things government have to consider with a lot of jobs been automated. Interesting times ahead.

[Assasin]

Socialism in many countries are seen as sharing spoils with unproductive people. In Jamaica for example, too many people think it mean robbing or taking from the state and nothing in return.

Socialism has failed many countries in Europe as well, some countries like the Nordics have been able to put and manage a good system. A lot of socialist countries in Europe has failed.

[Islandman]

Because socialism as practiced in most of the world has been an absolute disaster which in the end makes poor people poorer. The most recent horror story is Venezuela.

[Gamma]

Tax breaks are supposed to encourage re-investment. But I'm not sure it does that to the extent that is optimal as companies will take the money and run

[Islandman]

Certainly doesn't work all the time. If the overall conditions for investing are still poor I don't think a tax break helps much.

I am noticing in the US where companies are playing states against each other, saying if you don't give me a tax holiday I will move across the border. Similar to what the sports franchises do to get stadiums built. That isn't very productive to me because it's based on a threat not an incentive.

[Assasin]

as I-man I believe tax breaks are to be targeted. Startup and important small businesses are to be protected. Tax break can be given in certain regions to attract business such as the inner cities and very rural areas in some case but the wholesale tax break can be a disaster because somebody have to pay for it.

In the case of America, small businesses are very large businesses. The fact is the tax break by Chump is not targeting the productive industries but the owners even if they are not putting it back into productivity.

[HL]

....and with all that said by everyone who contributed to this thread...it's fair to conclude that trickle down does not work. Just too many friggin contingencies.