Krugman: Trump infrastrature plan,the mother of all rackets

[Islandman]

Bad charter schools should be shut down if they cannot be turned around. Some of them are excellent and doing new and innovative things, those should be kept and expanded , for example the Kipp schools. There is nothing magical about charter schools really, but the main problem with doing what they are doing with regular public schools is that you cannot change anything or fire anybody because of union control.

Yes community involvement is a major part of it. Students can't learn much when gangs are fighting and firing guns all night in their neighborhood or when mommy boyfriend trying to modest them.

Also the studies are showing that if a solid early childhood education from pre school is not there, it almost doesn't matter how much you spend from 3rd to 12th grade the students are too far behind.

[Assasin]

"Bad charter schools should be shut down if they cannot be turned around."

Problem with this is that it takes another 8-10 years to realize this and another generation is wasted. Primary is we need good administrators and community working as a unit for success. Politics also get in. the way of running a good system.

[Islandman]

Yes Sass but that is much easier said than done. There is no obvious solution to these complex problems. All we can do it try and measure results, or sit back and do nothing.

I always remember the guy at Harlem Chlidrens Zone saying that the amount of studies that point to changes that could help from him was in college 30 years ago, and you can't get he public school system to try any of them.

[Assasin]

Fact is some things change like "No child left behind", and standardize test etc. but it seems like they always choose the bad policies with good soundbites for political purpose and even charter schools has become a political tool rather than something administrators with experience to look into and make the possible best recommendation.

Not to conclude that Charter schools are not a viable way but this article point out some of the failing ones and reasons
http://www.commondreams.org/views/20...ls-are-failing

[Sir X]

5th columnist.

Yuh ah ear mi 5th columnist,leggo offa my president cause yuh nuh righted wid yuh assessment.

As usual yuh inna yuh own worl....

[Islandman]

So the evidence is based on the premise that studies which show that charter schools are making progress are capitalist funded propaganda, but studies which show that public schools are doing great are authentic.

If this was true, why do they still have to hold a lottery for places in many of these charter schools? The KIPP schools are getting about eight times the number of applications than they have positions. Why? The public schools are better but yet their parents want to send the children to a charter school?

Assasin this is clearly a liberal propaganda website. I don't see a single writer that is even moderate on any policy issues. It reads like a left wing version of breibart.com which I wouldn't take seriously on any issue.

[Assasin]

some of your points are valid but what is real is the fraud and cronyism in the chartered school and a high rate of failure in some.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/us/08charter.html

here is one from NYT and I can find many more.

[Islandman]

I have no doubt that there is fraud in charter schools, as there is in public schools.

Again, charter schools do not have pixie dust to magically fix everything that is wrong with education and the challenges that disadvantaged stuents heve. What they do have is the ability to innovate and adjust in a way that public schools don't, and if nothing else we are seeing that some of them are producing significant outcomes.

KIPP now has expanded to more than 200 schools across many states. For the charter schools that are failing or corrupt I wouldn't think they are expanding in the same way. In other words, success is being rewarded. How can that be a bad thing?

The political critics of charter schools will always try to find ways to explain away KIPPs and others track record of success as something other than just a better system overall. but it is getting more difficult to do.

[Assasin]

Again I said, Charter schools can be very good or bad. The fact is politics and corruption get involved. The schools must be properly vetted, and proper accountability must be in place and because a school is failing Charter school can't be the only option.

Some politicians jump and think just opening charter schools will solve their problem and make it turn school over to their friend. As you know a good charter school is hard work so I am wary of the wholesale turning over as they did in Ohio, the failure rate will be too high. I tell people to look into the charter school before they go, just like any other public school and see what is best for them and their family. The only reason some people will just at it is because it is new and in some case they hope it will be a success as their current system is failing but often times a lot get let down.

[Islandman]

I don't disagree with you on any of this. Charter schools alone cannot be the the answer. We don't even know yet if the concept can be scaled up to the level of an entire public school system. Some people are saying that KIPP might have grown too fast and some of the newer schools are not performing at the same level of excellence as the older ones.

In fact the Harlem Childrens Zone Project is based on the idea that the classroom is not enough, it is a community thing as you have said. They do some of the same things like KIPP such as longer school days, more rigourous analysis of data etc but they also believe that the things like sports, nutrition and parental education is critical to make it really work for the students over the longer term. The challenge is that approach requires a LOT more funding. Big money donors like Bloomberg have made it possible for them, but unless a government is really committed to the idea it will be difficult to scale to a public school system.

But back to Trump, I was hopeful when I heard he was considering Michelle Rhee for Education Secretary because I liked wahat she was trying to do to reform schools in DC before the political system shut her down. However it appears that she has decided she wasn't interested in the job. I hope he finds someone else with similar ideas about reform.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ion-secretary/

[Gamma]

Pablum, did you vote in the just concluded US general election?

[Paul Marin]

Paul do not believe in who is racist, as I hardly call anyone racist unless there is no doubt. What we can't deny is that Trump has inflamed people and has made even some race bating statement. That can't be denied.

I can clearly remember people on this forum saying Obama shouldn't do anything specific for Black people as he is the president of all people so what was expected. What I can believe is he will make his contribution now he is out office. For sure the black community and all are better off than when he took office. We also forget how many people went bankrupt because of healthcare. I hope we don't miss Obamacare.

My problem with Trump and the black community is that he has been insensitive so far of their plight except economics, and show me his contribution there over the years? Courting the far right make it more scary for many. When you get kids coming home from school with notes saying kids are been bullied since the election, you know it is not the right message. If the president can call names and discriminate against Muslim and the Mexican Judge and Mexican why not anybody else?? He has not apologized for these things.

I am not looking for anything but based on my studies in public policies I believe certain things. Nobody is saying there shouldn't be changes in immigration policies but to be honest, most of us who came to America or have a generation before us came was at some point illegal, worked illegal or overstayed at some point (even his current wife). No need drive fear in all these people, come up with a good workable plan, something he has not done, instead he started by saying he will deport all 11 million, now backtracking. Trump has identified problems but he is short on plans and just using the bully pulprit. The republicans have failed to sign off on any immigration plan so far, not even the one George W. Bush came up with.

My biggest problem with him is he lies everyday and is short on details in everything. How did we get in the Iraq war again?

Sass - nothing you say is unreasonable. All I am saying is ALL POLITICIANS - OBAMA, TRUMP, HILLARY, BUSH, etc. etc. are john crows. They are ALL the same...trust them at your peril.

[Paul Marin]

Pablum, did you vote in the just concluded US general election?

I can't vote. I am not American. If I could have voted, I would have written in Bernie. I can't trust a public servant who has had no job other than public service in 30 years, yet has a $150m net worth, refuses to release transcripts of what they say to Wall Street, and expect that they are fighting for social and economic reform, etc. I similarly can't trust a man that uses racist rhetoric, fans the flames of divisiveness, and seems indifferent to the plight of the less fortunate. Bernie is the only one that I think was being honest with the American people. And even there...he is a politician...so I would temper any great hope of seeing change.

[Islandman]

Well Trump went with another big charter school and voucher advocate, so it looks like we will be seeing some changes and a push for more charter school/voucher funding. Lets see what happens.

President-elect Donald Trump picked Betsy DeVos to be his education secretary Wednesday, putting an outspoken advocate of charter schools and education vouchers in America's top education post.

Trump transition's team confirmed her appointment in a statement.

"Betsy DeVos is a brilliant and passionate education advocate," Trump said. "Under her leadership we will reform the U.S. education system and break the bureaucracy that is holding our children back so that we can deliver world-class education and school choice to all families."

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/poli...retary-n687696

[Assasin]

Agree with everything you said above. I also agree that union is a big problem but Georgia don't have any teacher's union and we still have the same crap going on. I work in one of the biggest school district for 2.5 years and I saw a lot of waste and crap going on.

Base on what I see, as a parent in America if you kid is not naturally bright and you as a parent have no time to spend with them, and you can't afford tutor, you are in for trouble. I agree they should lengthen the school day instead of so much homework. The system is changed too often and too much political interference. Also special program have to be setup for non English speakers who come into this country. Dr. Gordon stress nutrition and positive environment. My friend who is a the head of St.Andrew JTA told me he open his school on Sundays and have boys come in to do projects because he know the alternative and where they would be, Your dad was a teacher, my mom was also one and you know in Jamaica it means been a teacher even after school. Teachers like your father was admired more than many parents in your area, I can imagine.