Krugman: Trump infrastrature plan,the mother of all rackets

[Sir X]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/op...wont.html?_r=0


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...on=us_business


http://www.salon.com/2016/11/21/paul...-scam_partner/


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[Islandman]

Krugman, one of the many liberal pundits who have been embarassingly wrong about Trump and his chances for more than a year and yet still confidently predict what will happen next.

These guys have balls, I will give them that.

[Sir X]

Can you blame them , winning anything isnt the best predictor of anyone's future business dealings, then again I could be wrong ,in fact I wouldnt be surprised if I am wrong with TRUMP....hehe

[Islandman]

I believe these proposed infrastructure projects,will make some connected people a lot of money. Mega-projects almost always do to some extent. That happens wether the project is run by govt or as a public private partnership. But Krugman writes as if when the govt runs these projects there are no issues with corrruption, massive overruns, and overall failure which is of course just nonsense.

The bottom line is Krugman believes in big government spending as the only macroeconomic option. When big spending is tried and doesn't work he simply says they didn't spend enough. So basically he can never be wrong. It is a typical liberal argument. Public schools are bad, you need to give them more money, schools still bad, you didn't give them enough. Then somebody else comes along and says, hold on maybe its not just how much money but how we are administering it , maybe there is another way to do this and they say that person is a dutty capitalist who don't want poor children to get an education. Never mind that they have been producing illiterates for generations.

The right wing tax cutters are no different BTW. You need to cut taxes to grow the economy. Taxes cut and economy still bad, you didn't cut them enough, cut some more. SMH. These people are more into ideology than results.

[Rudi]

when would you say Public schools were given enough money?

[Assasin]

Where I differ with you is the fact that we are just digging a huge gap in the deficit. No way current US can afford the huge tax cut, bigger military and the huge infrastructure spending.

Where is the money coming from to support these? Winning an election doesn't mean that Trump economic policy is all right. We will see in 3 years time.

[Paul Marin]

Where I differ with you is the fact that we are just digging a huge gap in the deficit. No way current US can afford the huge tax cut, bigger military and the huge infrastructure spending.

Where is the money coming from to support these? Winning an election doesn't mean that Trump economic policy is all right. We will see in 3 years time.

Sass - the reason a tax cut could work this time is because it is *could* attract more foreign companies to come to the US and spur repatriation of the trillions that US companies have stashed offshore. I submit that a big corporate tax cut coupled with some incentives to bring $ back may work.

[Assasin]

Paul there is also many things that Trump said which is worrying for foriegn investors putting their money in the US as well. Things such as 35 percent tax on Chinese goods which could upset the Chinese. In the short term tax cut means cut in social programs, there is no two way about it and please don't think black people is the main the group that will be mainly affected.

The same people who was against Obama having a deficit in the heart of the recession and lock down the government so many times just all of sudden think deficit is good? What if the investment doesn't come? Republicans have never cut the deficit, whether it is Reagan, Bush and I don't believe Trump will either.

We currently have high deficit, my concern is Trump is a high roller and he has had so many failed business as well as success but remember the Trump Airlines, Casino and University?

In my opinion we are rolling a dice and Trump changes his tune everyday.

[Islandman]

"Enough" is not a measurable quantity. That is exactly the point I am making. If a school district says we need more money and when they get more there is no improvement in results to show for it, I don't blindly buy the argument that they didn't get "enough". Perhaps the problem is not simply funding, perhaps the funding is not being used in the right places. Hell, perhaps some of the bad administrators and teachers need to be fired so the funding can be used to get better people instead of paying bad people more. Maybe some bad schools just need to be shut down because of their location and inability to attract good teachers, and the students subsidized to go to a different school. Maybe we need to try something different like charter schools and voucher programs and see what kind of outcomes they produce. We need to consider and experiment with these things before jumping to the conclusion that the money isn't enough. This is why I like the charter school concept. You can experiment with some things, if they work great, if they don't work you need to change them or give someone else a chance if you are out of ideas.

There are a number studies in the US that have looked at the impact of increased funding in bad school districts. The results are not particularly encouraging and very uneven.

[Islandman]

I totally agree that we are rolling a dice on Trump, we really don't know what this man is going to end up doing or what he really believes. Hence it is not wise to assume that he will wreck to economy or that he will make it boom. Right now it is not doing either, it is just chugging along so let's see where it is in a few years.

The money will come from borrowing , just like Obamas shovel-ready projects and bailouts that sent the debt up more than any President before him did. Was that a bad move at the time? I don't think so because it helped to keep the economy in places like Detroit afloat.

The deficit is simply one indicator of economic health. If you get GDP growth by increasing the deficit , wether through tax cuts or increased spending or both, in the short term that is not a bad trade off. The key is that you HAVE to get that growth or you will pay dearly later. When a Reagan cut taxes he created more debt the US economy went from years of stagflation to Good GDP growth. So did Seaga in JA in the 80s by the way, he borrowed a lot but the economy was much improved when he left.

[Paul Marin]

Paul there is also many things that Trump said which is worrying for foriegn investors putting their money in the US as well. Things such as 35 percent tax on Chinese goods which could upset the Chinese. In the short term tax cut means cut in social programs, there is no two way about it and please don't think black people is the main the group that will be mainly affected.

The same people who was against Obama having a deficit in the heart of the recession and lock down the government so many times just all of sudden think deficit is good? What if the investment doesn't come? Republicans have never cut the deficit, whether it is Reagan, Bush and I don't believe Trump will either.

We currently have high deficit, my concern is Trump is a high roller and he has had so many failed business as well as success but remember the Trump Airlines, Casino and University?

In my opinion we are rolling a dice and Trump changes his tune everyday.

I am not one who buys into the rhetoric of republican = bad/racist and democrat = good/not racist. Both parties are two crime families to me. In the case of the new president-elect's agenda, the cut on taxes, reduction in regulation, position on "fair trade" (not sure I know what he is doing here, supposed infrastructure rebuilding etc. are all SIGNALS (he hasn't done anything yet) that businesses believe will be in their favor...and so you see the market up. On his social agenda, I also am not one that believes that black people or other minorities will suffer more under a republican than under a democrat. Under Obama - the first black president - black people did not advance measurably. With all the executive orders he had at his disposal, he never once signed anything to reduce the militarization of police or put forward any economic rebuilding agenda, even for crime torn, murder central south-side Chicago, a turf he knew well. As I said, two crime families. A Trump presidency will be no different.

With respect to immigration, I don't understand the objection to kicking a law-breaking illegal immigrant out of the country. I have friends that have been waiting 10 years on their green card, following the process patiently, but we are supposed to give preferential treatment to somebody who jumped the line? How come we don't see media do stories on those people stuck in countries where hardship is tearing at them everyday, (but they follow the law)?

At the end of the day, whether it was Hillary or Chump, I was not expecting much, so my position is a "wait and see". I have no doubt however, that the 1% won't get poorer under Trump...not sure if the 99% will get better, but let's just say, I ain't holding my breath.

[Assasin]

There is a big difference when you are in the middle of a recession and have high interest rate, and jobs needs saving than when we have economic growth and 4 percent unemployment.

In my opinion, not knowing what Chump is doing from day to day is good for business not good for economic planning.

We just came out of the worst recession since the 1920s and in my opinion it is good to get the economy fundamentals right so when the next one hit we have the ability to spend a little more, to use government programs and grow. The fact is most of the republican economist still believe like in the 1920s that government action can't stop or help in recessions, Deficits must only be cut on social programs. That is where Krugman and others different by thinking government can inject and moderate the effect as LBJ did.

We will be taking away our ability to respond in a crisis if we further run up the deficit and and nothing happens. The fact is the US economy is growing, we have 4 percent unemployment, yes some moderation is needed but no drastic economy action, coal is not coming back, If oil price is at 50 dollars production is hard in the US. A publicized trade war with China will not help, war with Mexico will not help and other trading nation. Yes we need jobs back but we also need diplomacy not bully.

Go back to George W Bush election, coming in on a growing economy, cutting taxes, plundering the deficit, tax cut for the rich and even sending money to your home(which is only done in communist country) and where did we end up? the worst recession.

The fact is we can't continue to run a country on long term deficit plan. Everybody can't get tax cut, increasing military spending bigtime, keep social programs growing, and big spend on infrastructure without it affecting us, somebody going to have to pay at some stage. The taxes going to have to come from somewhere, if not the federal government then the state.

Trump has shown sound bites and no concrete plan to give me any confidence that he will do nothing but winging it.

[Assasin]

So what about the bad charter schools? Fact is like the public schools, charter schools are either good or very bad. The major problem with school is the community and parents, while we will have people who change lives, the problem will still be there.

I agree with you that throwing money is not the answer, a lot of time it is wasted by the administrator at the state and government level and not necessarily at the school level. The graduation rate has gone up recently, can we look to see what has worked and what hasn't? Republicans think Charter schools and privately run schools are the answer, it is only a part of a complex solution.

As Dr.Gordon points out the community impact is massive. Why is it you have so many people in the rust belt not graduating schools? Why is it in the inner city you have people not graduating? Why is it more likely for a Caribbean student to get a degree than an African American. There is some commonality I can think of, the interest of the community as a whole and just maybe some of that money should be spend on out of school activities and get the communities more involved in school activity and vision. A kid thinking he will be a farmer, a miner, a drug dealer and people telling them they will not be anything good doesn't do well regardless of concept. You either have to take the kid out or have positive re-enforcement.

[Paul Marin]

Trump has shown sound bites and no concrete plan to give me any confidence that he will do nothing but winging it.

Stay calm, and carry on being vigilant.

[Assasin]

Paul do not believe in who is racist, as I hardly call anyone racist unless there is no doubt. What we can't deny is that Trump has inflamed people and has made even some race bating statement. That can't be denied.

I can clearly remember people on this forum saying Obama shouldn't do anything specific for Black people as he is the president of all people so what was expected. What I can believe is he will make his contribution now he is out office. For sure the black community and all are better off than when he took office. We also forget how many people went bankrupt because of healthcare. I hope we don't miss Obamacare.

My problem with Trump and the black community is that he has been insensitive so far of their plight except economics, and show me his contribution there over the years? Courting the far right make it more scary for many. When you get kids coming home from school with notes saying kids are been bullied since the election, you know it is not the right message. If the president can call names and discriminate against Muslim and the Mexican Judge and Mexican why not anybody else?? He has not apologized for these things.

I am not looking for anything but based on my studies in public policies I believe certain things. Nobody is saying there shouldn't be changes in immigration policies but to be honest, most of us who came to America or have a generation before us came was at some point illegal, worked illegal or overstayed at some point (even his current wife). No need drive fear in all these people, come up with a good workable plan, something he has not done, instead he started by saying he will deport all 11 million, now backtracking. Trump has identified problems but he is short on plans and just using the bully pulprit. The republicans have failed to sign off on any immigration plan so far, not even the one George W. Bush came up with.

My biggest problem with him is he lies everyday and is short on details in everything. How did we get in the Iraq war again?