Beenie Man says dancehall too dependent on jailed Vybz Karte

[Assasin]

But Ska nuh dead, only we not holding to our history. Jamaicans not supporting it but check in Britain and Southern Cali, just not a lot of recording because it nuh pay and not on the air.

[Mosiah]

Wi not supporting it just like how wi not supporting mento. Dem music jawnrah owl and tiyad! We a deal wid dancehall now.

Same ting happen to disco - everybody loved it, it did its time and exited di place. Yes, it coming back and some can say ska coming back too.

Culture can't be forced dung people throat!

[Historian]

Jangle, I'm Now Confused!

Jangle, I’m a bit confused here by your post. I was NOT fighting change, as everything evolves; that’s a natural feature of life. As such, the examples and references in your post (which I’ve quoted below) to Omni and others are completely irrelevant to the viewpoints I expressed in this thread.

I was simply explaining to ‘Sass that change doesn’t always come from the actions of radio disc jocks or consumers (the public). Oftentimes the change comes from within the music industry itself; that is, musicians, arrangers and record producers. With specific reference to ska, Jamaican musicians and record producers are the ones who made the decision to slow down ska, not radio disc jockeys or the Jamaican public. That’s all I was pointing out!

Your reference to Paul Blake and Blood Fire Possse, in fact, perfectly supports my point about change often coming from within (that is, dictated by) the music industry itself.

Finally, my initial comments (following Lazie’s thread opener) was NOT an attack on the genre of dancehall. I’m sure that was clear from what I wrote. My statement was obviously a concern, also expressed by Beenie Man, of a certain reality in dancehall today. Read carefully my first post in this thread.

Historian, you cannot fight change and evolution. Ska did its time. Albeit a very short one, but it spawned Rock Steady/Reggae which went on to put Jamaica firmly on the international map. Without the slow down of the music, the world would have never been blessed with Bob, Dennis, Third World and many others. In 1985 Paul Blake and The Bloodfire Posse introduced computerized sound to reggae which changed the music again. This change gave new life to the music and spawned Shabba, Stitchie, Admiral Bailey and then later on Buju, Bounty, Beenie Man and now the incarcerated King of Dancehall, Vybz kartel. When a little "foreigner" (because nobody can tell me that he's not African, despite him saying that he's Jamaican) like Omni can conquer the music charts across different continents and introducing new and younger audiences to reggae and dancehall music, then it can't be a bad thing.

[Bricktop]

dancehall is not missing talent at all...what it lacks is a gatekeeper...you realize that no radio station apart from FHAH 105 has a playlist...the jocks play whatever they feel like...or more to the point...what they get paid to play...

[Historian]

The Gatekeeper Concept

dancehall is not missing talent at all...what it lacks is a gatekeeper...you realize that no radio station apart from FHAH 105 has a playlist...the jocks play whatever they feel like...or more to the point...what they get paid to play...

Brickie, I agree with you (and ‘Sass) about the need for gatekeepers in music played on the broadcast media (in fact, in my opinion, in all areas of the communications media, although news editors in Jamaica are generally doing an acceptable job).

Boss, you have contacts in the dancehall industry, and so I strongly suggest that you also direct your comment above in a memo to the “King of Dancehall,” Beenie Man. His published statement is the reason for this thread.

[Historian]

Jangle: Patiently Waiting

Jangle, I’m a bit confused here by your post. I was NOT fighting change, as everything evolves; that’s a natural feature of life. As such, the examples and references in your post (which I’ve quoted below) to Omni and others are completely irrelevant to the viewpoints I expressed in this thread.

Jangle, boss, I will NEVER make political posts on this particular forum. Until things change in our beautiful, 53-year-old independent country (for example, a six-month intense state of emergency in all 14 parishes), my posts will continue to focus on the two primary things we are known for: culture and track and field.

As such, I’m still here awaiting your additional comments following that lecture from you that had absolutely nothing to do with anything I said in this thread. You are wrapped up in promoting this genre so much that you cannot see anything else, not even the concern expressed by someone who knows more about dancehall than most people, the so-called “King of Dancehall” himself, Beenie Man!

I waited this long because I was searching for an EXCELLENT analysis of current dancehall standards posted several years ago by Stonigut. I did not find it, but to this day I regard his post as probably the most outstanding commentary on this subject, even better than anything I have ever posted here.

And, by the way, this thread will not stop until it is resolved! So, what is your view on Beenie Man’s expressed concern?

[Jangle]

The thing with the "written word" is that it can be interpreted in many ways by the reader. Hence, I generally try to keep my posts on the lighter side, in case my "written words" don't convey my intended meanings.

Now I extracted your line "The musicians ARE the ones to be blamed" from your post as my point of reference because I interpreted this as you chastising the musicians for evolving. This evolution led to the demise of your beloved Ska to your vexation. However, as I pointed out, it gave birth to Rock Steady/Reggae which had a bigger influence on world pop culture than Ska. This later evolved into Dancehall music which is still having a major influence on world pop culture.

Over the years we've had a running debate about Dancehall music as a genre and its culture. I've always interpreted it that you have no appetite for this genre which is ok. The point that I've always tried to make is that you seem stuck in the past when the music that you hear on the radio was made by actual musicians. The crap that we hear today is, unfortunately, a result of that evolution that we "older" folks have to recalibrate our ears to. I see American Hip Hop artistes putting out all kinds of garbage that is making millions and I say, what about our own Dancehall artistes? They are putting out the same garbage, but not making money.

Beenie Man is one of my favourite Dancehall artiste. I especially love his earlier catalogue. However, I think Beenie Man needs to shut his trap as he has not capitalized on his potential on the international level. Throughout the years, he has chosen to remain "local" to maintain his "street creds" by engaging in petty squabbles. Beenie Man could be one of the gatekeepers of the Dancehall genre and culture through his international exposure. Instead he's worrying about airplay to the tiny Jamaican radio audience. A few of the Hip Hop artistes have realized that having their tunes played on the radio don't equal wealth and have branched out into other ventures. You have Dr. Dre, T.I. 50 Cents (BS bankruptcy claim) and of course JayZ who have parlayed their Hip Hop background into other ventures that is making them millions. Today I heard that the legend, the icon Prince is set to release his new album under Jay Z's new venture TIDAL come September. Right now, only Shaggy I can think of who has stepped up to become one of the gatekeepers of the Dancehall genre. There may be more but I don't know. Beenie Man chooses to remain "local". He is a reflection of the Jamaican business psyche - small-minded and short-term instant rewards. The genre, like everything Brand Jamaica, has huge financial potential, but until a foreigner take it, package it and then sell it back to us, we continue to look down on the "dutty dread wid the 40 legs inna him head".

[Historian]

Whatever....(Sigh)

Now I extracted your line "The musicians ARE the ones to be blamed" from your post as my point of reference because I interpreted this as you chastising the musicians for evolving.

Jangle, my friend, trust me, you are in no position to lecture me on any aspect of Western music from the Renaissance period to 2015!! Try that with others, but it cannot work with me because…. Well, let’s stop here.

First, my comment about musicians being the “ones to be blamed” for the change from ska to rocksteady was made in a specific context: ‘Sass’ view that radio disc jockeys and the record-buying public tend to be the cause of changes. I was simply saying that in the change from ska, musicians and producers are the ones who initiated that change!

To respond to your comment, I am not necessarily stuck in the past, but the logical conclusion to your “enlightened” reasoning is that we may as well completely shut down music education in high school syllabuses, at the college level, and even at our own Edna Manley School for the Performing Arts! Are you that blind to the problems that are being/can be caused in schools and colleges from the semi-literate computerized garbage that you so avidly support?

In fact, what you refuse to understand is that, ultimately, the future of music lies in the hands of MUSICIANS who can actually play an instrument! You are so caught up with this passing phase of “being in tune with today” that you fail to realize that today’s music is all about being a huge money-making business for this and that industry!!! Nothing more; nothing less!!

Should I support this? Hell no, not even on my dying bed!!

In conclusion, Jamaican music in this era is no longer made, as in the days of Bob Marley and Jimmy Cliff and Third World and Israel Vibration and Delroy Wilson and Marcia Griffiths and Ernie Smith and Dennis Brown and Toots & the Maytals and the Skatalites and Carlos Malcolm & the Afro Jamaican Rhythms, and countless others as an expression from the heart. It is now a product of computers manned by musically semi-literate @ssholes!

But no problem for you: after all it is Jamaican (and as Jamaican as the overwhelming homicide and rape statistics).

As usual, you make emotional inferences to the “small man” in Jamaica, including your “dutty dread with the 40 legs inna him head”! Do not ever include this type of sh!t in our discussions, because I have absolutely no interest – and never ever will – in whether quality music is emanating from a talented “small man” or from a talented “big man”!

But no problem, as Jangle not only loves this sh!t, but goes across to the USA to find examples in order to justify such crap! You have so much to learn, my friend, and posting videos of non-entities from various countries trying to replicate dancehall music tells me absolutely nothing! Sorry….I made a mistake here, it illustrates to me why so many searching-for-something youths across the planet are turning to some of the most feared terrorist groups on the planet.

Being lost adds up in many, many different ways!

[Jangle]

Oooookkkaaayyy then.......

[Gamma]

😳😳😳😳take that!!!!

[Jangle]

Yup...let me back away slloowwllyy and close the door to this ward.

[Gamma]

But quick enough lest......

[Mosiah]

Yup...let me back away slloowwllyy and close the door to this ward.

HAHAHAHA! Dat some funny sh!t!

A dat fi reach yuh, bout yuh a music hexpert! Historian tell yuh say him dine wid Orlando Patterson and yuh figget dat him also strong in the field of music. Yuh never hear say John Coltrane was him neighbour?

[myYout]

It sad fi true, when ah dat e come to,
But di DJ dem nowadays nuh hab nuh creativity, style or fashion. Dem get dem 10 - 15 years an no tek di dancehall muzik an laas it, joke all ah dem. A Vbyz Cartel ah guh bi di ongle one weh ago get some mention an him ah prison bud, nuh idiot business dat. Joke!!