As I was saying about "Self driving Car"

[Assasin]

Simply, it is there for the record.

[Assasin]

No it so happen that I have to fix broken systems and systems that are oversold too often. Just working on one now.

[Don1]

Imagine all the car windows turning an opaque blue, and yuh can't see ntn! Yuh Ctrl-Alt-Delete till you yuhself get blue in di face! Mad ting!

mi be..lly!!

[Islandman]

True but realise that different types of technology have different levels of expectation.

If ATMs malfunctioned and counted people money wrong even 1 in 10000 times nobody would use them, so they were built well enough that people feel comfortable using them, ie they work just about ALL the time.

If elevator systems malfunctioned 1 in 10000 times nobody would use them , so they are built robust enough for people to feel comfortable taking them, ie they work just about all the time.

I am sure that self-driving cars will be closer to these levels of reliability than your standard Intel-inside laptop running Windows loaded with crapware off the internet. We know that technology may fail us more than once a day and we are ok with that.

[Tilla]

I spoke about Malfunction yes, that way a part of it. The fact is in driving every reboot, every freeze is a malfunction. The fact is electronic parts will often fail.

Sass, as one Admiral Bailey would say "Mi tell yuh aready, mi ago tell yuh again".
The computer in the automotive environment is nothing like your PC. They use microcontrollers to control the various functions. So, you will have an ECM that controls engine function (spark plug firing, fuel injection timing, monitoring temperature etc, you will have a separate ECMs for air bags, anti-lock brakes, cabin climate control etc, etc.

I have already explained how all of these work on the network called CAN Bus.

Can these microcontrollers fail? Of course they can, but they have demonstrated that they can run a long time in a vehicle without failure. How often do you hear someone say they have to go get a new ECM (engine control module) for their car? I had a failure of one once and thecar had over 150000 miles.

These ECMs have been tried and proven over the past two and a half decades. If you drive a car that was made say after 1990, you would be using some of the hardware that will be in these new vehicles. The only difference here now is an embedded systems engineer would program the microcontrollers to perform whatever function they want it to control on the peripherals connected to it.

As I was saying in another post yesterday about machine vision systems, the technology has been in existence for some time, it is just that it is now only gaining acceptance into the automotive industry.

So Sass, don't expect to see your desktop sitting beside you in your car anytime soon and Windows blue screen of death appearing on your screen. You should not have any problems with reboot either as they should not have any operating system like your PC.

[Assasin]

The difference is these machines do mainly one function and it is not critical, unless wholesale machines spill money. This technology is maybe some of the most complex by machine as it has to deal with last minute critical thinking pretty often in congested space with stuff that should be complex to any machine. Knowing what I know from my experience with software designs and MULTI TASKING, along with current state of BOARDS and chips and diagnosis, I feel comfortable in what I am saying.

Not that I am against technology and new technology, I just know there is a lot of challenge and even with the best testing some of the problems may not come to the fore until it is actually in operation.

[Islandman]

That is the thing, Sass seems to think that we are dealing with corporate office equipment instead of industrial grade equipment. Big difference.

[Assasin]

There are more failures that you know about. Check mechanics. I had a problem with a brand new luxury car. The dealer couldn't find the problem and I had to threathen to sue the dealer if anything was wrong with my wife who was then pregnant with my son at the time. This was not fixed until years after as chip was malfunctioning only sometime. This was later told to me that this is was a problem with those model cars.

This not about desktop, this is about chips, circuit boards and man made software that controls it so my point still stands. chip, vision system, all these technology are subject to malfunction and not just 15000 miles but brand new out of the box, so don't fool yourself Tilla.

[Assasin]

I am judging based on current technology in cars and what I know about software and most system designs that I have encounter.

Most of those industrial designs is based on measurements, doing repeated task, and software design to do a few functions. This car design is very complex to do most of the things a human would do while driving and then it has to have very good reaction to everything else around it.

Plus check the Quality control for some of those MAJOR firms and you might be surprised.

[Tilla]

What was the problem Sass? Typically any dealer can plug in a diagnostic tool and read a code to troubleshoot the issue. There is no replacing chips either. They could replace a sensor or an ECM, but no chips get replaced. It is not how it is done in the automotive industry.

I'm not fooling myself Sass, as although you may not know, until recently I was in product design and development in the auto industry. The industry has standards which is accepted by all manufacturers, irrespective if they make luxury cars or a Yogo.

[Assasin]

The car drove fine but you could then try to start it and it wouldn't start but if you left it for 3 hours and go back it would start right up. I had to pick up my wife a lot from work only to go back and the car started right up.

Twice the dealer asked me to drive it straight to their dealership and once they picked the car up in my garage. They ran all the test on the car and couldn't find it. When my wife was due, I threaten them and they kept if for the last month and a half and returned it and said they couldn't find a problem. This was suppose to be one of the best dealer in NY. We had to trade the car in. Years later I encounter someone who had the same problem and the mechanic told me it was a problem with that model, It was years after the maker sent new chips in, based on what the mechanic told me.

Right now I have another car and you turn off the car and the radio is still on. I have to turn it off twice sometimes. Took it back to the dealer twice and it still has the same problem. I gave up because I can live with that one, but I couldn't live with a malfunctioning auto driver technology.

[Tilla]

I'm no mechanic or car technician, but I would suspect a sensor that fed the ECM that controls the engine functions was at fault. Sometimes some problems are more difficult to diagnose if they don't happen frequently. With these cars, they use a lot of sensors to tell the ECM when everything is right for it to perform an action. If the sensor works some time and does not on other occasions, then you could have problems like you are describing. I guess they identified the sensor, then told you they replaced a chip. I guess they figured you would more readily accept an explanation like that than saying a sensor was bad.

All cars I have owned since 2000, the radio does not turn off when you turn off the ignition. If you turn off the ignition then open the door, if I left the radio on, then it would turn off. So I pulled into my garage yesterday evening and Notorious BIG was singing "I like it when you call me big poppa! " I shut off the engine, close my garage door and sat and listened to the end of the song. Even with the key out of the ignition, the radio kept playing. Once the song was done and I opened the door, the radio stopped playing.

Are you saying yours would've continued?

[Assasin]

Yes with the key out of the ignition the radio keep playing. I have to put it back in, then it works. Also sometimes you turn it on and you can't change the volume, you have to turn if off and on. They have changed the radio and I think the alternator.

[Tilla]

Did you say this was the Mercedes AMG GT? I know that this can be an inconvenience, but it is a small issue that should be easily address. This is not like an engine control module shutting down on I95 resulting in a pile up for miles.

Secondly, I cannot understand the reason behind changing the alternator. The alternator's purpose is to change the battery and power electrical systems when the engine is running. The radio not turning off does not strike me as a malfunctioning alternator.

[Assasin]

No the first car was Mercedes 250. This was a model between 2002-2003. I can't remember. We had it for 1 year and got frustrated.

The one with the Key problem is a Land Rover LR3. I am just too busy, can live with the key problem but I mention it because it exists and I tried to fix it at least twice.