Islandman and Assasin...good job!!

[HL]

Good job in presenting the facts on racist Giulianai.

I lived and worked in New York in 1983 when Ed Koch was Mayor. I was there through the Denkins and Giuliani reign.

Giuliani rid the City of the mob that was rampant during that period. The New York mafia ruled portions of Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx and Staten Island. It took balls of steel to get rid of the entrenched mob. Rudy's crime-fighting method against the mob was just as vicious as it was against Blacks.

Giuliani balanced the NY City budget with an excess; he cut taxes and increased employment.

After the NYC budget was balanced--he turned his attention to quality of life issues.

--jay walking
--honking of horns
--pan handlers
--squeegie boys at stoplights
--increased tourism to NYC
--cleaned up 42nd Street (and other poorly managed areas)
--better services
--the list goes on>>>>

I witness and enjoyed those changes!

As far as crime is concerned, he must be given some credit. That most of his crime fighting was concentrated in Black neighborhood is a fact: Giuliani was racist in his approach. And like it or not, Blacks accounted for a [high] disproportionate % of crime when you consider that we make up ~ 13-15% of the NYC population.......>>>

NOTE: Crime in America took a drastic dip after the Million Man March in 1995.

Gangs that were responsible for most of the crime in the big cities--publicly called a truce on that October day (I remember so well) . Crime declined steadily in the USA after 1995. NYC benefitted from this statistic. I recall Bill Clinton taking credit for crime reduction.

[....same way crime in Jamaica/Kingstong declined after what's his name was arrested ]

Racist as Guiliani is...he is a darn good manager. Jamaica would do well with leadership that kick-ass resolve... that believe in quality of life issues as well as growth and development.

"There are some good in the worst of us".

[Rockman]

Were all italians targeted(himself included)in his war against the mob?
Reducing the number of people from my targeted race on the civilian complaint board was providing better service?
Was the quality of life addressed evenly across the board or was it unfairly applied?
A racist can only be a darn good manager to people that have find nothing wrong with racism.
Why when he criticized Obama it was deemed wrong but you have no problem when that broad brush is used elsewhere?

[HL]

I have said my piece Rock.

You have said yours...and i respect what you have said.

Let's agree to disagree.

[Rockman]

How about not only saying your piece but defending it too,HL.
Otherwise ,maybe it is not worth saying.
A mayor is one for all people,was he a good mayor for people of my race?
If you have a problem with ANYTHING I said please point it out,I am not one to be overly sensitive about being corrected,in fact I welcome it.

[HL]

...a don't feel like bickering Rock...

[Assasin]

Rocky man Italians hated him. He even stopped their yearly fireworks that was mainly run by Gotti mob family. There is a difference as all Italian neigbourhoods were not targeted while most black neigbourhood was, but many Itialians I knew couldn't stand him. What you must also remember is his popularity was getting very low and then 9/11 happened.

[Mosiah]

Good to see you swallowed the bait, hook, line and sinker. I appreciate consistency.

I guess you believe Obama hates the USA too, huh?

[Mosiah]

Rudy's crime-fighting method against the mob was just as vicious as it was against Blacks.

So, his fight against self-appointed criminals is compared to the fight against a set of people whose only crime is the colour of their skin.

Again, this doesn't surprise me one bit.

Say hello to the wife for me, HL!

[Gamma]

so rudy's dad was a mobster, and rudy was able to clean up the mob? that almost sounds like jim brown's son dudus, making crime within tivoli non-existent.

it takes a thief to catch a thief?

[Gamma]

oooohhhhh ....

[Sir X]

Classic H.L - Self Hate -The Blacks, not black criminals,or in black neighborhoods where crime is high i.e projects but blacks, encompassing the middle class in Laurelton,Cambria Heights, Queens Village etc .

Giulliani was a succesfull in his war on crime because he did exactly as H.L implied, he institutied a policy of garrisonization ,the blacks where the perpetuators of the majority of crime in his paradign ,by proving to NY that he brought crime down in our neighborhoods or siding with ethnic groups -jews against the blacks he could sell his racist agenda to be re-elected.

Crime did fall at a high cost to the blacks ,could he have dealt with it another way ,of course history have proven this with succesive goveranace ,so much so that those that came after him pointed this out as his failure.

Nothing to be greatfull to Guiliani for ,cant deny him that crime fell at a cost.

[Islandman]

Probably.One would think that his knowledge of the mob through family connections was very useful to him.

[Mosiah]

What a do?

[Mosiah]

Rudy's crime-fighting method against the mob was just as vicious as it was against Blacks.

HL, yuh really should apologise to the Forum for this statement. Or at the very least, explain what you meant by it.

A swear, if Zeppo had said this he would have been banned for a long time.

[Karl]

Classic H.L - Self Hate -The Blacks, not black criminals,or in black neighborhoods where crime is high i.e projects but blacks, encompassing the middle class in Laurelton,Cambria Heights, Queens Village etc .

Giulliani was a succesfull in his war on crime because he did exactly as H.L implied, he institutied a policy of garrisonization ,the blacks where the perpetuators of the majority of crime in his paradign ,by proving to NY that he brought crime down in our neighborhoods or siding with ethnic groups -jews against the blacks he could sell his racist agenda to be re-elected.

Crime did fall at a high cost to the blacks ,could he have dealt with it another way ,of course history have proven this with succesive goveranace ,so much so that those that came after him pointed this out as his failure.

Nothing to be greatfull to Guiliani for ,cant deny him that crime fell at a cost.

The problem is the stats, lie!
It reminds of Seaga's period of economic prosperity. If each statistic/'number' is not included then results...LIE!

Here is something to think on...Blacks and to a certain extent other minorities were 'made criminals' by their prosecution for 'crimes' that whites were not! Let me make it a little plainer - If arrests are being made for 'jay-walking' and those times blacks commit the offense 'they are seen' while when whites do the same they aren't. What do you think the stats will tell? I shall answer...A DAMN LIE!!!

New York saw crime go down?
...it appears more about a self-fulfilling prophesy. The black neighborhoods took a battering...so those committing crimes in those areas became 'smarter criminals'. Yes, less reported criminal activity was the result! More criminals were 'getting away with 'it'! Hey...if you felt safe and the odds even when you did not feel save remained at the same level...then things appear 'curry'=you feel save and you tout this new period of crime free living.

...gotta hand it to him underserved areas on stuff like garbage collection, snow ploughing, etc. started to be better served!!!

...but what the hell? I am a cynic. At that time I was a cab-driver in one of the most violent prone areas of New York...*South Jamaica. Gun crimes and other went on unabated!!! ..but what the hell do I know? ...I was only attending "The University of The Streets"...

*The irony was South Jamaica was in close proximity to John Gotti's and other Mafioso's township of Howard Beach...safe township. I wonder why that area was 'crime-free'?