Garveyites, what is the real story on

[Islandman]

Bag-a-wire? Did he have a name and do we know it? What exactly did he sell out Marcus about? Is there any real historical record of the story?

I know he existed but often wonder how much of this man is myth and how much is real.

[Sir X]

It is real , buss pan marcus when he was trying to get the Black Star Liner going.

[Sir X]

In a memorandum dated 11 October 1919[11], J. Edgar Hoover, special assistant to the Attorney General and head of the General Intelligence Division (or "anti-radical division") [12] of The Bureau of Investigation or BOI (after 1935, the Federal Bureau of Investigation),[13] wrote a memorandum to Special Agent Ridgely regarding Marcus Garvey. In the memo, Hoover wrote that:
“ Unfortunately, however, he [Garvey] has not as yet violated any federal law whereby he could be proceeded against on the grounds of being an undesirable alien, from the point of view of deportation.[14][15] ”
Sometime around November 1919 an investigation by the BOI was begun into the activities of Garvey and the UNIA. Toward this end, the BOI hired James Edward Amos, Arthur Lowell Brent, Thomas Leon Jefferson, James Wormley Jones, and Earl E. Titus as its first five African-American agents. Although initial efforts by the BOI were to find grounds upon which to deport Garvey as "an undesirable alien", a charge of mail fraud was brought against Garvey in connection with stock sales of the Black Star Line after the U.S. Post Office and the Attorney General joined the investigation.[15]
The accusation centered on the fact that the corporation had not yet purchased a ship with the name "Phyllis Wheatley". Although one was pictured with that name emblazoned on its bow on one of the company's stock brochures, it had not actually been purchased by the BSL and still had the name "Orion". The prosecution produced as evidence a single empty envelope which it claimed contained the brochure. During the trial, a man by the name of Benny Dancy testified that he didn't remember what was in the envelope, although he regularly received brochures from the Black Star Line. Another witness for the prosecution, Schuyler Cargill, perjured himself after admitting[16] to having been told to mention certain dates in his testimony by Chief Prosecutor Maxwell S. Mattuck. Furthermore, he admitted that he could not remember the names of any coworkers in the office, including the timekeeper who punched employees' time cards. Ultimately, he acknowledged being told to lie by Postal Inspector F.E. Shea.[17] He said Shea told him to state that he mailed letters containing the purportedly fraudulent brochures. The Black Star Line did own and operate several ships over the course of its history and was in the process of negotiating for the disputed ship at the time the charges were brought. Assistant District Attorney, Leo H. Healy, who was, before he became a District Attorney, attorney for Harris McGill and Co., the sellers of the first ship, the S. S. Yarmouth, to the Black Star Line Inc., was also a key witness for the government during the trial.[18]
Of the four Black Star Line officers charged in connection with the enterprise, only Garvey was found guilty of using the mail service to defraud. His supporters called the trial fraudulent. While there were serious accounting irregularities within the Black Star Line and the claims he used to sell Black Star Line stock could be considered misleading, Garvey's supporters still contest that the prosecution was a politically motivated miscarriage of justice, given the above-mentioned false statement testimony and Hoover's explicit regret that Garvey had committed no crimes.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Garvey

Baga-wires....correction.

In his interesting and deeply documented "Negro with a Hat" author Colin Grant never mentions Bag-a-wire.Instead Barry Chevannes in his book


"Rastafari-Roots and Ideology" talks about Bag-a-wire as a myth,not being more precise on the kind of betrayal he perpetrated against Garvey.

as i understand it although he didnt go down in the history books, he was a real person for sure. he used to roam the streets dressed in bags sown with wire. (i dont know the technical name but like a woven sack perhaps used for coffe beans or similar. i think santa might use such a bag) anyway hence the name bag-o-wire. he was an outcast and people (kids and that) used to tease him, calling him bagawire and throw stones at him. he would just point his finger at them and walk away saying nothing just pointing his finger. the story goes he was a garveyite previously (garveys driver?) but betrayed him by pointing him out to his enemies. garvey then but a curse on him. and from that day he was to roam the streets and pointing his finger was all he could do.

the rice and peas bit comes from when garvey formed the peoples political party his opponents responded by handing out free foods, rice and peas, to get the sufferes votes.

.....thats how i understand it anyway. sorry if not put in the best english. hope it makes sense and helps anyway. good to hear people out there listen to the lyrics and try to understand them. all the best.....

http://www.bloodandfire.co.uk/db/vie...hp?f=1&t=37022

[Don1]

Bag-a-wire? Did he have a name and do we know it? What exactly did he sell out Marcus about? Is there any real historical record of the story?

I know he existed but often wonder how much of this man is myth and how much is real.

Im definitely real

Mi sight up couple ah im descendants inna di Rum Bar yah

[Assasin]

Garvey was definately sold out by some informers within his organization but was was there a bag of wire??? Was it he all to be blamed?

They charged him with mail fraud, to be charged with mail fraud you had to have people from within giving evidence and most likely promise of lighter sentence. He was definately a target. Baga Wire get all the blame.

[Don1]

Sass.. do you regard yourself as a Garveyite?

[Assasin]

No, I have done a fairly decent amount of reading, went to school with two of his nephew and had a good half an hour chat with one of his sons when I invited him as speaker at a function, also was at his celebration in St. Ann's Bay when I was in St.Ann. Sorry I don't do a very good job of following people even if I admire some things about them.

[Don1]

No, I have done a fairly decent amount of reading, went to school with two of his nephew and had a good half an hour chat with one of his sons when I invited him as speaker at a function, also was at his celebration in St. Ann's Bay when I was in St.Ann. Sorry I don't do a very good job of following people even if I admire some things about them.

No need to be sorry.. everyone is entitled to their orientation But 2 follow ups:

1. You say you admire "some things" about Garvey. What things don't you admire??

2. You seemed to do a great job of "following" Bartlett and cheerleading his cause a couple years back.
Was he your exception to your rule?

[Tilla]

OneDon, leave the man alone!!

[Don1]

OneDon, leave the man alone!!

lol

At least I'm being very polite ... gimme credit fi dat

[Assasin]

Tourism related, don't know much about Barlett outside of that, Garvey is also tourism related in case you don't know.

Are you a Garveyite?

You ask one question and got your answer. No more fore now, Thank you.

[Don1]

Tourism related, don't know much about Barlett outside of that, Garvey is also tourism related in case you don't know.

Are you a Garveyite?

You ask one question and got your answer. No more fore now, Thank you.

LOL!!!!! I see you refuse to state what you don't like about Marcus. No worries

and..

You're welcome

[Assasin]

Are you a Garvyites? That is the one question I will ask you.

[Islandman]

Interesting X, thanks.

[Don1]

Are you a Garvyites? That is the one question I will ask you.

Absolutely