Revisiting An Old Subject: Patois in Schools

[Historian]

Today’s “Letter of the Day” (The Daily Gleaner) is an excellent letter, and one that is definitely worth reading!

Now, I am obviously aware that there has been intense and prolonged discussion on this forum on the matter of whether or not it is necessary for Patois to be taught in Jamaican schools, having taken part in several such discussion posts. My view, a resounding “No!” has been made clear here over the years. So, I apologize for revisiting this rather old topic, but I honestly believe that today’s Gleaner letter is worth reading. – Historian

Source of extract below: The Daily Gleaner, Wednesday, December 24, 2014

Letter link: http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2.../letters1.html

LETTER OF THE DAY - The Miseducation Of Carolyn Cooper

Patois is an audible language, and there exists no standard in how certain words are spelt or pronounced. This is due, in part, to the fact that Patois varies from parish to parish in Jamaica, as Patois in St Elizabeth has differences from Patois in St Thomas, Kingston from Westmoreland, etc.

I've been referred to as being backward, narrow-minded, illiterate even, whenever I express my annoyance at the call for the teaching of Patois in schools, or printing articles such as Ms Cooper's.

[Peter R]

Why two versions of patois spelling Miss Cooper? The "prapa prapa" spelling would entail a whole new learning if one wanted to write patois using it.

Anyway, like speakers of any "language", difficulty will be encountered in the writing of the language so i don't know that introducing patois will make learning, or should I say communication, easier. I have seen enough Spanish speakers whose writing of their own language is atrocious, (just like English speakers), so yes Historian I'm with you on this.

Beyond basic learning, English will be required, so we should start from young to teach English language in schools.

[HL]

Fully agree with you Historian.

I would even venture to require (mandatory) proper english in schools and the 'ouse of parliament.

[Karl]

Why two versions of patois spelling Miss Cooper? The "prapa prapa" spelling would entail a whole new learning if one wanted to write patois using it.

Anyway, like speakers of any "language", difficulty will be encountered in the writing of the language so i don't know that introducing patois will make learning, or should I say communication, easier. I have seen enough Spanish speakers whose writing of their own language is atrocious, (just like English speakers), so yes Historian I'm with you on this.

Beyond basic learning, English will be required, so we should start from young to teach English language in schools.

Well have you - The Massive - commented on my attempts to communicate through written patois? ...on these reggaeboyzsc.com forums? ...and the attendant derision those attempts have been met with...particularly by Jangle?



It is a waste to attempt to teach our patois in our schools. That it has its place in use in schools is what any good teacher will say...and the good teacher shall use the patois as necessary support teaching tool...but teaching as in formal structured syllabus time-tabled subject? Perish the thought!!!

With you, guys!

[Rockman]

Teaching it in school isn't necessarily the same as formalizing it.Formalizing it would remove the uncertainties regarding interpretations.Jamaicans are not the only ones that speak patois,didn't Rio say "sket" and it was labeled to our surprise patwah?Did his knowledge of English helped?
Secondly,given you have variants even in sign language,identifying specific regions,why are we objecting to our creation being formalized,why the stigma?
Reggae (the heartbeat of a people)would benefit too,really tired if people asking me what something means;that does confirm the interest to know exists.
The greatness of literature written by Miss Lou etc are capped because the language isn't formal.
We were told "hym chat bad een",the prevailing stigma continues,but hey,there is movement on the weed issue,all we need is for more foreigners to validate patois and just like that ebryting widda kriss.

[Sir X]

Waste of scare resources , there is a fundamental problem with this patwa theory.

What is their to teach about patwa, juss my opinion.

[Rockman]

Well why would foreigners gravitate to it?Someyhing about the language.
Look,one of the sound arguments put forth for taking Reggae music to the next level is to do it in a language easily understood.If you can find a Bob interview in which he spoke standard english then bring it to my attention.Bob reasoned that ANY fan of hym is invariably a fan of his true language.Bob not only promoted reggae music...
At some point,people will not only use patwah without knowing its origin but also make claim it is their language.Love you like cooked food is one of the expressions that is becoming rootless.
All I am saying,patwah is into everything,the adding of certain seasonini our cooking defines our food,the beat and patwah distinguish reggae.
I will take it even further,the first objection to patwah must have been slave masters that felt disadvantaged not understanding it(slaves can't be monitored )now the same resistance exists by way of the prim and propah,the very same people that only turned a blind eye to weed when it was better received elsewhere.
It is a language and it is here to stay.

[Rockman]

Ownership of it is certified ,X.

[Sir X]

Xactly now tell me how does a youth who has the verbal command of patwa comprehend the written form in a physics book.Its like having a verbal command of any language e.g english yet still not grasping concepts of higher education,its a literacy problem anyway you look at it where concepts have to be mastered and built upon.

The same prablems yuh ave in english literacy in mastering concepts of higher education , yuh aguh ave it in patwa, from speaking,writing to interpreting different educational disciplines,patwa/english being one.


Waste of resources, we have masterd the spoken,we dont have the finances to master the literacy concepts of higher education, we are failing in english,i expect the same in patwa because of resources.

[Rockman]

Whereas I am not demanding that it be taught in school or that it becomes a substitute for English,I am for it becoming formalized.
Therefore if I was to consider it being taught in school then the same way French,Spanish etc
do not increase you chances of grasping physics....

[Sir X]

Not getting you,formalized but not taught in schools,how do you expect to achieve this.

Your ability to grasp an educational discipline depends on you mastering the formal language though not gauranteed it increases the chances ,jamaica has a english literacy problem because of resources , not because dem dunce , the same problems english face patwa would face .

We have mastered the oral aspect of patwa because it isnt formal ,it can never be , because it is an evolving language that is dynamic,born out of slavery , each parish and island has its own, and no doubt a tremendous amount of resources which we dont have would be needed to formalise it and guess what, you would still have a high illiteracy rate in formal patwa.Some would argue it was never meant to be formalized.

The question stands , what is to teach about patwa....how to continually evolve ?

Recognise it, embrace it , give it a special status ,but lets be real,what is their to learn about patwa.

[Rockman]

Formalizing it is bigger than Jamaica,foreigners are gravitating to the language.
It is an intriguing question how to formalize it without the schools figuring,obvioulsy that would be the next step.
Let us go back to our CXC days,what if you are writing an essay and insert in quotations something said in patwah,should you lose marks for doing so,and if so,would having the language formalized(something to help the examiner to test accuracy)prevented that?

[Sir X]

Given what I just stated about,evolution, parishes and Islands , to answer your question.....loose points based on whose formalized formula on standadization....surely not the kuntry man inna lan fram leff behin ?


To me its place lies in UWI in a cultural linguistic course and of course national recognition, it would a shame if a small Island gives it recognition before we do another missed oppourtunity like ganja.

[Rockman]

Formallizing it would have the various parishes fall in line and having some control over it never ending evolving but then you already know that.
Happy holidays sah!

[Sir X]

Same to you sah ...to me its an admission of failure by our educational ministers/academics that havent a clue.It would be better if they just said wi bruk and the only way we can achieve this english standard , is to follow cuba and venezuela .Formalizing patwa would mean the same route.