Islandman..."Up From Slavery"

[HL]

If one studied American history you would be expected to know that the British had something to do with the independence of America , no? You have to be a Booker T expert to be a Garvey expert, but you should know something about his influences to understand the man.

More importantly you should know enough to not suggest that Booker T ripped off Garveys teachings, people will ridicule you when you say things like that.

..............or mixing-up Booker T. wid W.E.B DuBois......

[Sir X]

Boss di making myself indespensible to another race will let me pass, betta mi look out fi Rasta race

Man is man.

[Sir X]

How many of us are truly experts? ..most of us are just driven by historical social passion where we live Bookers,WEb,Marcus Malcim,Martin,Selassie, Rasta philosophy daily, its genetic and intrinsic to being African.

Can't tear dem down,they all fulfilled the book,even though I disagree with some chapters and Thats the African right to continuously self actualize for the betterment of man.

[Rockman]

Not saying anything really,how about providing facts to support your assertions?
Where is the evidence he influenced Marcus?
In the end who showed signs of changing,who began to embrace the philosophy of the other?
All I am asking is for you back up your assertions with facts.

[Rockman]

Somewhat pedantic,but again not saying anything concrete,how about in addition to saying things ,you also provide facts in support.....
Waiting patiently?
Was there indication of ideological changes in the end by Booker T??
Who moved in whose direction?

[Rockman]

But even so,wasn't THAT a sign of tacit approval by Booker T of Marcus' phlosophies?

[Rockman]

Okay,how did that environment impacted his perspectives?Was he submissive as a result?
Stop making Booker T look like his environment was in any way an obstacle,wasn't he a consultant of the president?Didn't he have more access...than most activists in his time?
In the bible,it was an eye for an eye then the new testimony changed that to turn the other cheek.Makes sense if that was done by the victimizer that fears retaliation.Well then the message the victimizer prefers will be the one he promotes,you should take (even) a grain of salt with that food being served.You know of Booker T in a favourable way by design.When a woman loses her viginity it is final,the Atlanta Compromise...means everything.

[Don1]

But even so,wasn't THAT a sign of tacit approval by Booker T of Marcus' phlosophies?

They were both interested in upliftment of our people but had different strategies... I really don't see what the fuss is about

[Karl]

Sigh. It is unbelieveable how little some of us know about topics that we pretend to be knowledgeable on.

Anybody who doesn't know that Garvey was greatly influenced by Booker T knows little to nothing about Garvey. It is that simple.

Yuh nuh I love to use "nonsense" as shock teaching tool...but I have to say you are better at using same without the use of the actual word!

[Rockman]

Yeah as abigious and cagey as can be.
Don1,a house negro ate,dressed,and lived(dwelling)better than a field negro.Was the house negro an inspiration to the field negro or better yet was the house negro all about the upliftment of our people?
Do you see the parallels?
The house negro is submissive and docile,he was propped up to keep the field negro in line.

[Don1]

What you see as "ambiguous and cagey" I see as clear cut. Both had strengths and weaknesses... both contributed to upliftment. Who am I to be negative about either? The fact is they did SOMETHING
Even when mi sight Marcus ah try work wid di KKK mi nuh blood dat... mi si di intent and di bigga pikcha.

The struggle doesn't evolve in a straight line mi bredda

Who I tend to me negative about are those who do nothing but yap or are only out for themselves... dem deh ah plague to mi

[Sir X]

Well known?
Again,who writes history?
A mentor isn't the right word,on this issue it invariably implies teacher.Booker T was impacted by behavioural modification programme at Harvard.His message was so pleasing to the ears of the power that be insomuch that he was promoted by them,the consequence of which is your saying he was Marcusmentor,despite there are polar diffences between the philosophies of both.It was ordained that many would align themselves some bent on diluting him.
Thrre were teo sets of freedom fighters,they both vehemently disagreed on the approach of the other,one prevail,and we are here today free at last.

I agree with Rock,I just read the altlanta compromise, that was selling your people soul, in stark contrast from Marcus,up you mighty race and accomplish what you will, Africa for Africans.

Part of the compromise was giving up a lot of your human Rights on the hope that whites would fund black education,rights like voting. Is this the mentality of making one indespensible ? An educated negro with no voting rights.

This notion of making oneself indispensable to another race,is irrational, not narmal thinking. Wasn't Booker T accused of being a part of the bourgeoise ?...I see why this bredda never impressed me.

Marcus was before his time,the Rasta theme of man is man is obvious in Marcus teaching,obvious in Malcom and Martin teaching,uttering judge me for the content of my character is just that however low or high. Malcolm many utterences against the Shitstem was just that.

Booker T philosophy is not a chapter in the book of struggles that I would read,besides Marcus seeking him out,My interest would be why because the philosophies don't mesh. If only it was for Marcus to gather knowledge to mold?

[Rockman]

There was something a little different about you this time around,my guess is based on prior observations,you opted for the smoke(screen) to clear before you will pass judgement.
I will NEVER forget that a respected ite recommended that book to you,my sentiments at that time remains the same today.Do not take gamma's suggestion personal to the point where you do not want to read the book(reading snippets and summary...will not do).I have every reason to think you are well read,please add that book to your worthy collection.

[Rockman]

The reason I say ambiguous and cagey is avoiding answering questions may prevent you from taking a position closer to my views...,and being mindful of that suggests you are defensive ......
The struggle was about forcing change,the powers that be wanted to leave the status quo as is,if in tge end,your position mirrors that of the power that be,then in all fairness we should credit the powers that be with the upliftment of our people.
De tings gwaan tun up cause some audacious side swiped chat mek outta pure ignorance suh belly fi cut out.
You can be as general as you want,there is protectionism in thar :0,but others must defend their fallacious positions,howdy Islandman!

[Don1]

Big man all I was saying was that Marcus was mentored & assisted by Booker T... not the other way around. The record on that is crystal clear.

Mi nuh inna nuh long argument bout their "different positions" or taking a "position closer to yours" at this point.... mi did ave mi time inna skool wen mi used to tek note ah dem personality issues. Mi inna practical tings yahnow

Right now ah Century 21 an' ah yute upliftment thru STEM mi ah focus pon, not bellyaching bout 100 year old differences ... Mi leff dat to academics fi ponder... yuhzimi???