Islandman..."Up From Slavery"

[Rockman]

Mr Washington(now where did I hear that name before?)philosophical arguments surround integration,you will finally be accepted one day.Garvey was about creating what we can call our own.

[Don1]

Time is looonger than rope,today terms like civil rights is anathema to the informed,it is human rights.
The head of the ALCU stated Garvey was too dark and his features were too disticnt ,that was the atmosphere ,one of rejection rather than approval.Who writes our history?

I suppose you mean NAACP (i.e. DuBois) and not ALCU?

I know that skin tone thing was an issue with the NAACP... never heard of that with the ALCU. Pls provide a reference

[Don1]

Exactly what does that prove or refute?

It proves what is well known.... Booker T was a mentor of Marcus

[Rockman]

You are correct,NAACP it is.

[Rockman]

Well known?
Again,who writes history?
A mentor isn't the right word,on this issue it invariably implies teacher.Booker T was impacted by behavioural modification programme at Harvard.His message was so pleasing to the ears of the power that be insomuch that he was promoted by them,the consequence of which is your saying he was Marcusmentor,despite there are polar diffences between the philosophies of both.It was ordained that many would align themselves some bent on diluting him.
Thrre were teo sets of freedom fighters,they both vehemently disagreed on the approach of the other,one prevail,and we are here today free at last.

[Rockman]

Okay,and we will in a timely manner.
How did you like mismeasurement of a man?SURELY you read it!

[Don1]

I'm not measuring each of those giant's contribution to Black people or proposing which of their approaches to progress was superior.
My vote on that happens to be with Garvey ... but that's an entirely different argument from what's being addressed here

I'm merely stating what the historical record shows: Booker T Washington was a mentor and an inspiration for Marcus Garvey. He rendered assistance to Marcus and exposure to what was then and still is today, an important development model of institution building by Black people in the US

A mentor doesn't necessarily confer the same approaches to problem solving to the mentee ... the mentor can also merely have a significant & positive impact on the subject person while influencing his general direction

[HL]

Gamma introduced me to the (likely) second edition to the book you mentioned when i joined this forum in 1996.

Mismeasurement of Man is a response to the infamous "bellcurve" nonsense.

I guess it made interesting reading for those who think that mans' overall equality requires a debate.

I did not buy the book, but I have gleaned most of what it was all about and supporting.

[Islandman]

One of my all-time favorite books, both for the rare perspective it gives us from someone who was born a slave and and went on to become a highly educated individual (Fredrick Douglass is another such person) and also for the truly remarkable work that the man did in his lifetime.

When I was younger and less informed I used to dismiss some of Booker T's achievements, primarily because of that infamous "Atlanta Compromise" speech where he argued against pushing too hard for civil rights and focus instead on self-improvement, which he believed would result in a change in respect and racial perceptions. I still think he was wrong about that but the man's achievements are so immense we can surely overlook that misstep, which all great men make sooner or later.

And yes, Marcus was greatly inspired by the book Up From Slavery, corresponded with Booker T and had made plans to meet him. However Booker T died before that occured. The self-improvement and self-reliance aspect of Garveyism comes straight from the Booker T files. Like any good student he took those teachings and , in my view, improved on them.

Let us also remember that Booker T did his work in the Jim Crow south where lynchings were the norm, De Bois, Garvey and others worked out of the North which though not entirely safe, was much less dangerous for an "uppity negro".

[Islandman]

Sigh. It is unbelieveable how little some of us know about topics that we pretend to be knowledgeable on.

Anybody who doesn't know that Garvey was greatly influenced by Booker T knows little to nothing about Garvey. It is that simple.

[Don1]

Sigh. It is unbelieveable how little some of us know about topics that we pretend to be knowledgeable on.
.

Woooiiieee mi Pegasus!!!

[Sir X]

Harsh Island, very harsh.If one studied American history is it a prereq to know British or lets say Jamaican history ? It would be good to know the source of our schizophrenia , how much of it contributes to today problems, but its not as if history hasnt moved on since the British and their is alot to study since.

I say that to make reference of the black bougesise,their history from Booker T to the present.That history and paradigm needs to be addressed in our history.Some would argue it caused a great divide in the movement and continues to do so , whether thats good or bad that is the debate,and they havent a clue who Booker T is , today ! and of course Marcus.


Its not black and white but multifaceted per Island and African nation as to how that story is told ...man is man !...I myself had to think about who is Booker T , I had him confused with WEB, because their philosophy was just a flash in my mind.

I cant see how bringing oneself up to alevel to make you think your are indespensible to another race is rational ?Thats why to me the Rasta philosophy to me has been the greatest social voice in Jamaica to challenge all elitist system , be it racist or bougesie,where an African can voice that his religion and buring a spliff, chanting down babylon is superior to any western education in the early 1920s, all inspired by Garveryism.


Granted they have moved on to be educated scholars since who are Rastas to challenge it (system) on a more linear level..man is man.How that Rasta philosophy has transplanted itself worldwide is a statement, that will more and more be examined, as it becomes more and more relevant.

[HL]

Thanks I'man.

The second reading had a more profound impact on me.

I had more 'stress' as a freshman, so i zipped through the book without absorbing it completely. There were so many books to go through.

This time, i was just floored by Booker T's over-all achievements.....

One bit of information I missed was the introduction of Henry Ossawa Tanner the great artist. Washington met Henry Tanner in Paris

I have seen the artwork The Banjo Lesson, The young Sabot maker, Daniel in the Lions' Den and other and did not attribute these to this great Black Artist.



Henry Ossawa Tanner (American, 1859-1937). The Young Sabot Maker, 1895. Oil on canvas. 118.4 x 87.9 cm (46 5/8 x 34 5/8 in.). Purchase: the George O. and Elizabeth O. Davis Fund and partial gift of an anonymous donor, 1995. Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art. © The Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art

[HL]

Just read the book X-man. it's only 'bout 140 pages.

It's available on Amazon for just $2.25.

BTW: X, over the years I have become more familiar--and have used to my advantage, the business term: soft-selling..... .........

[Islandman]

If one studied American history you would be expected to know that the British had something to do with the independence of America , no? You have to be a Booker T expert to be a Garvey expert, but you should know something about his influences to understand the man.

More importantly you should know enough to not suggest that Booker T ripped off Garveys teachings, people will ridicule you when you say things like that.