I think this is the most dynamic forum on the RBYZSC

[Muadib]

There is an all-important data that shows the JLP has always failed the people. That data - Numbers given the chance of upward mobility through education!

Have you ever heard the saying - Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

The JLP's history is 'give a man a fish'!
The PNP's has been 'teach a man to fish'!

Hey - yuh fishin!

What the fcuk are you talking about ?

The PNP have had 26 years and the JLP 8 since the revolution in 1972.

Today 75% of School leavers cannot pass 1 CXC exam after 18 straight years of PNP rule.. dem cyaan even find dem way to the ocean much less fish.

The JLP were able to generate > 6% growth a critical element for the development of a country.

What is the PNP claim to fame ? 1 Trillion in debt ?

[Muadib]

Point taken.
Is there no possibility of a 3rd Party in Jamaica made up individuals who want to contribute to nation building and not just the party machinery. Are there no more 'good men' left? Could there be say an "Independent" party that would attract people from either side?

Bruce tried the 3rd Party thing.

All it did was guarantee the PNP 3 Terms.. not going down that road again.

[Willi]

Karl,

I KNOW you are an intelligent man, so why are you defending the indefnsible???

The bad bargain Govt has presided over the imposition of visas on us by virtually all the countries that could provide the safety valve (that were visa-free before). They did NOTHING to resist, and I know that as a fact.

The pressure will now start to build internally as all the valves gone, PLUS young people trying to forge business links now have additional hurdles.

"How can U be standing there...telling me...that U care...that U care,
When everytime I look around
The people suffering, they suffering
in every way, in every wayyyyy"

MOSIAH, that 5% will be indeed hard to achieve. The bad-bargains allowed indiscipline to reign for too long and now at least one generation is lost. Minds are blown, not really ready for the tasks at hand. i hear U mi bredda.

[Karl]

Karl,

I KNOW you are an intelligent man, so why are you defending the indefnsible???

The bad bargain Govt has presided over the imposition of visas on us by virtually all the countries that could provide the safety valve (that were visa-free before). They did NOTHING to resist, and I know that as a fact.

The pressure will now start to build internally as all the valves gone, PLUS young people trying to forge business links now have additional hurdles.

"How can U be standing there...telling me...that U care...that U care,
When everytime I look around
The people suffering, they suffering
in every way, in every wayyyyy"

MOSIAH, that 5% will be indeed hard to achieve. The bad-bargains allowed indiscipline to reign for too long and now at least one generation is lost. Minds are blown, not really ready for the tasks at hand. i hear U mi bredda.

Willi: We are agreed there is a lot that needs changing! "The How" we go about getting the change the country so desperately need cannot be a simple throwing out en bloc one set of leaders. We have been doing that since 1944 and we are where we are today.

If someone or some group can come up with a solution which does not follow that old path - clearly the old path...the earlier 2 terms only or the present 18 years PNP has not worked...

...then?!

"The Why", as I see it, is complex...but, it had a lot to do with the leaders not being willing to embrace the good the other party did, to build on it...

...and an unwillingness to 'put the country first'.

Why then after seeing the foregoing do I think that giving Portia a shot at changing the mind-set in leadership is on the cards?

1. She has never been afforded a real leadership role.

2. She had been viewed as a 'lightweight' by the men in her party....and, those in the other party - which, as had the PNP when in opposition acted as opposition (party) only.

She was never taken seriously. Slowly the men in her party are taking her seriously. Just look at the series of attacks she came under after she voted her conscience on the 'fire services' issue.

...and, the not taking seriously her attempt at gaining leadership of the PNP by her fellow PNP MPs. How quick were her opponents in the PNP to stand on principle and put KD Knight in his place after his personal attacks? They were as speedy as snails.

...and, after she gained the leadership role and became the PM? From within the PNP came further attacks and 'undergrown' voices ripping her having the competence to represent the country in any international forum, casting of doubts on whether or not she had the intelligence to properly represent the country...casting doubts on her ability to be the PM...

...and, the JLP and other goons kept attacking on the matter of her supposedly lack of intelligence...additionally the media facilitating attacks on her character as 'tracer 'oman'.

...and, on and on...

3. So where MUST SHE TURN to prove the critics wrong...make them eat their words?

She is, as far as her finances are concerned, in a comfortable family situation...

The only avenue open to her is to manage the country well! Take care of the poor from which she came. 'Make' good deeds that will shine for her. Make the men around her...and, the women...sit up and take notice and utter our famous words 'respek due'!

That is her path! Her only path! ...the other is leaving a legacy that will make it double difficult for another woman to have a crack at leading the country in the near future.

Yup! Portia has to do right! Not only because it is what she has been saying she wants to do...but, also to satisfy her longing for what she sees as 'rightful acceptance'...

...being seen as having the ability to perform in as competent as the best of our past leaders...

...with a drive to prove that she is, in fact, better than all who went before her.

For acceptance - ...even if she does very well many within the society are pre-disposed to give the accolades to other parties...for example, shall praise every male member of her party and ignore her... - doing well is not enough!

YUP! Portia has only one way of leaving a lasting legacy - Prove the doubters wrong! Create...preside over a Jamaica that florishes...a Jamaica that makes tremendous gains on each and every front.

What is there to drive a Bruce? What is there to have a Bruce as Portia shall - make Jamaica inclusive of all its people - PNP, JLP and 'No-P'? what does he have to prove that equals...or even comes near to the motivation Portia has to 'do good' by all the people?

[Muadib]

Willi: We are agreed there is a lot that needs changing! "The How" we go about getting the change the country so desperately need cannot be a simple throwing out en bloc one set of leaders. We have been doing that since 1944 and we are where we are today.

If someone or some group can come up with a solution which does not follow that old path - clearly the old path...the earlier 2 terms only or the present 18 years PNP has not worked...

...then?!

"The Why", as I see it, is complex...but, it had a lot to do with the leaders not being willing to embrace the good the other party did, to build on it...

...and an unwillingness to 'put the country first'.

Why then after seeing the foregoing do I think that giving Portia a shot at changing the mind-set in leadership is on the cards?

1. She has never been afforded a real leadership role.

2. She had been viewed as a 'lightweight' by the men in her party....and, those in the other party - which, as had the PNP when in opposition acted as opposition (party) only.

She was never taken seriously. Slowly the men in her party are taking her seriously. Just look at the series of attacks she came under after she voted her conscience on the 'fire services' issue.

...and, the not taking seriously her attempt at gaining leadership of the PNP by her fellow PNP MPs. How quick were her opponents in the PNP to stand on principle and put KD Knight in his place after his personal attacks? They were as speedy as snails.

...and, after she gained the leadership role and became the PM? From within the PNP came further attacks and 'undergrown' voices ripping her having the competence to represent the country in any international forum, casting of doubts on whether or not she had the intelligence to properly represent the country...casting doubts on her ability to be the PM...

...and, the JLP and other goons kept attacking on the matter of her supposedly lack of intelligence...additionally the media facilitating attacks on her character as 'tracer 'oman'.

...and, on and on...

3. So where MUST SHE TURN to prove the critics wrong...make them eat their words?

She is, as far as her finances are concerned, in a comfortable family situation...

The only avenue open to her is to manage the country well! Take care of the poor from which she came. 'Make' good deeds that will shine for her. Make the men around her...and, the women...sit up and take notice and utter our famous words 'respek due'!

That is her path! Her only path! ...the other is leaving a legacy that will make it double difficult for another woman to have a crack at leading the country in the near future.

Yup! Portia has to do right! Not only because it is what she has been saying she wants to do...but, also to satisfy her longing for what she sees as 'rightful acceptance'...

...being seen as having the ability to perform in as competent as the best of our past leaders...

...with a drive to prove that she is, in fact, better than all who went before her.

For acceptance - ...even if she does very well many within the society are pre-disposed to give the accolades to other parties...for example, shall praise every male member of her party and ignore her... - doing well is not enough!

YUP! Portia has only one way of leaving a lasting legacy - Prove the doubters wrong! Create...preside over a Jamaica that florishes...a Jamaica that makes tremendous gains on each and every front.

What is there to drive a Bruce? What is there to have a Bruce as Portia shall - make Jamaica inclusive of all its people - PNP, JLP and 'No-P'? what does he have to prove that equals...or even comes near to the motivation Portia has to 'do good' by all the people?

This is not about Portia.. this is about Jamaica.

The PNP Party INCLUDING Portia have failed the country and put it in a precarious situation.. you want to reward them for their efforts ?

You clearly do not understand how accountablity is applied to political parties in a 2-party system. You wish to fix the PNP while it attempts to run the country.. no, that has to be done OFF-LINE.. when dem ready mek dem come to the people. That is what the JLP had to do.

The 5 years rest will do them well.

What is it with you comrades.. 18 straight years and unnuh still want more..

yuh nuh see unnuh want a serious breeze out ?

Damn...