'I'm Not Extinct' - Jamaican Taino Proudly Declares Ancestry

[Islandman]

Yes that was the simplified version that most of us were taught.

We were also given the impression that the Arawaks were all peaceful and only the Caribs were aggressive, when this was not the case.

[Historian]

Thanks, TDowl

Historian, I believe Puerto Rico has the strongest Tainos presence - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%C3%ADno

The Ciboney/Siboney were from Vera Cruz, Mexico, somewhere I have a photo of a woman in St Bess, that is suppose to be last known Taino in Jamaica.

What became of those people from Suriname, they were located in St Bess, place known as the Suriname Quarter?

Thanks for this information TDowl, boss. As I’ve stated here in the past, you are the “real historian” here, certainly much more than I am!

Also, I apologize for confusing you with HL in a post I made above (“Answers to Your Question”). HL was actually the person who asked the question I was responding to.

I’ve also always noticed the slight variations in the way some historians spell the name of those early Arawak Indians (Ciboney vs. Siboney).

To answer your question, I don’t know what became of those indigenous migrants from Suriname. I wasn’t even aware of their existence in St. Elizabeth!

[Stonigut]

Taino, Columbus, Surinam Quarters migration!

TDowl I am not certain that PR had strongest presence at all, I think Their researchers have the strongest passion about Taino presence more so that anyone else and there are many reasons for that, chief in my mind on this is the need to point away from the African root as the primary origin of color in the population and point elsewhere same thing in DR, even though it is abundantly clear that culturally, religion, music, dancing, food that it is very Afro dominated regardless of what the people actually look like.

I think there is a lot of Taino culture in Jamaica that we have just overlooked and it has never really been seen as a primary point amongst those who developed the jamaica narrative post independence more that just a cursory mention. Read throughColumbus's expedition in jamaica and you get a strong sense of how strong the Indians were especially around Goat Island and the entire Hellshire to Portland bight area, Columbus in fact talks about the canoes in jamaica being the largest he had ever seen being in one instance as long as 100 feet and eight feet wide, ornately decorated and intricate carvings, these rowed canoes were so fast that Columbus while pulling away from Jamaica was caught and boarded by. Cacique in one of these canoes.

On the point that you talk about on Suriname quarters those people were mostly british isles families and their slaves not many Indians really probably a Jewish presence as well but that was always never really fully exposed so we don't really know. Surinam was an English colony that was ceded to the Dutch in the late 1660's and the colony thus had to move! those who wanted to continue living under English protection moved to jamaica in three ships in sept 1675 occupying the area now called Surinam quarters which is mostly in Westmoreland but some of it is in western st Elizabeth. The total were 250 Europeans, 950 people of African origin mostly slaves but may have included some free people, data not clear and there were also thirty one indians as well.

Those people are still here today and probably amongst all of us here writing on this forum I would imagine probably many of us are descended from some of these people so they are here and everywhere. Names of the European families were regular jamaica names like , knight, Woodstock, Armstrong, Phillips, Dunn, Matthews, braithwaite, Davidson, Norris, Hudson, hide, Gordon, Horne, Scott etc etc. I am sure many of those names still have pockets of density in eastern Westmoreland and western st Elizabeth.

[Historian]

Wonderful Discussion!

Excellent input! (I notice that you chose to use the old English spelling, “Surinam” instead of what it became in the 1970s under the Dutch, “Suriname”.)

Quite frankly, this is the type of non-localized discussion that I have so often longed to see on this local-politics-obsessed forum! Thanks for this scholarly input, Stoni! Not only have I found what you wrote very interesting, but now you have encouraged me to do some additional reading on the Amerindians of our region! I must confess to knowing little about the indigenous people of South America’s smallest independent nation, Suriname, and so I have learnt from your post.

So much is known about the Incas and the Aztecs and the Mayas of the mainland, and so comparatively little in the case of the original islanders!

TDowl I am not certain that PR had strongest presence at all, I think Their researchers have the strongest passion about Taino presence more so that anyone else and there are many reasons for that, chief in my mind on this is the need to point away from the African root as the primary origin of color in the population and point elsewhere same thing in DR, even though it is abundantly clear that culturally, religion, music, dancing, food that it is very Afro dominated regardless of what the people actually look like.

I think there is a lot of Taino culture in Jamaica that we have just overlooked and it has never really been seen as a primary point amongst those who developed the jamaica narrative post independence more that just a cursory mention. Read throughColumbus's expedition in jamaica and you get a strong sense of how strong the Indians were especially around Goat Island and the entire Hellshire to Portland bight area, Columbus in fact talks about the canoes in jamaica being the largest he had ever seen being in one instance as long as 100 feet and eight feet wide, ornately decorated and intricate carvings, these rowed canoes were so fast that Columbus while pulling away from Jamaica was caught and boarded by. Cacique in one of these canoes.

On the point that you talk about on Suriname quarters those people were mostly british isles families and their slaves not many Indians really probably a Jewish presence as well but that was always never really fully exposed so we don't really know. Surinam was an English colony that was ceded to the Dutch in the late 1660's and the colony thus had to move! those who wanted to continue living under English protection moved to jamaica in three ships in sept 1675 occupying the area now called Surinam quarters which is mostly in Westmoreland but some of it is in western st Elizabeth. The total were 250 Europeans, 950 people of African origin mostly slaves but may have included some free people, data not clear and there were also thirty one indians as well.

Those people are still here today and probably amongst all of us here writing on this forum I would imagine probably many of us are descended from some of these people so they are here and everywhere. Names of the European families were regular jamaica names like , knight, Woodstock, Armstrong, Phillips, Dunn, Matthews, braithwaite, Davidson, Norris, Hudson, hide, Gordon, Horne, Scott etc etc. I am sure many of those names still have pockets of density in eastern Westmoreland and western st Elizabeth.

[Stonigut]

No problem, there is much to know. One of the issues we have is that there is actually a lot of Amerindian dna in Jamaica outside of the Taino/Arawak. Mosquito Indians were used heavily by the English in the various maroon encounters and the mosquito coast was a English dependency that was controlled via the Jamaican colonist, it is also known that North American Indians were brought to Jamaica at the time of the revolutionary war in the Americas, as those loyal to the crown actually came to Jamaica with their possessions and slaves and Indian servants/slaves?.

It is actually more than a strong rumor that the legend of lovers leap was really about Cherokee Indians being resold as slaves during that time but no firm evidence of that.

[TDowl]

Thanks for this conversation Stonigut.

"Mosquito Indians" Miskito Indians, they used to raid the area known as Mosquito/Miskito Cove in Hanover, and yes about the Maroon getting track by them.

North American Indians, I came across that link, and I believe St Bess was were they came in.

I have to look for the link about Black Jamaican coming to Virginia in 1619. We do know that there was also Black Americans coming to JA, less than those who went to T&T.

[Willi]

I went to Primary School in Span Town and we all did pedagogic excursions to Folks Museum (old King's House) and Arawak Museum in White marl.

At the latter they repeated the same Carib vs Arawak history, and it only recently we learned that there were powerful, warring Caciques in Hispanola who Columbus used to fight.

[Mosiah]

Excellent input! (I notice that you chose to use the old English spelling, “Surinam” instead of what it became in the 1970s under the Dutch, “Suriname”.)

Quite frankly, this is the type of non-localized discussion that I have so often longed to see on this local-politics-obsessed forum! Thanks for this scholarly input, Stoni! Not only have I found what you wrote very interesting, but now you have encouraged me to do some additional reading on the Amerindians of our region! I must confess to knowing little about the indigenous people of South America’s smallest independent nation, Suriname, and so I have learnt from your post.

So much is known about the Incas and the Aztecs and the Mayas of the mainland, and so comparatively little in the case of the original islanders!

Traveling in Brazil and Guyana the other day made me realise how close we live to "National Geographic"!

In the Brasilia airport, I saw a couple on their way to a departure gate. Clearly in their native garb, what struck me was the lip plate that was being worn by the woman. I tried not to stare, but couldn't help thinking of these native people taking advantage of airplane travel while still hanging on strongly to other traditions. I wondered if her lip plate was an iPhone!

Kayapo Indians eat, drink and smoke wearing lip d…: http://youtu.be/FylRAhHWyW0

Then in speaking with the anthropologist on the minibus through Guyana's jungle, it strikes home to me again that these cultures are alive and well, and right here. And far more interesting than the awe factor and the opportunity for photos is the fact that they could actually be living fossils, so to speak, for insight and knowledge about our very own indigenous peoples.

This is right in our backyard. Guyana is not that far away. Between its interior and the Amazon jungle next door, there is a treasure trove of information. Remember, there are tribes from this region who are still referred to as Arawaks.

What I found interesting too is, like Jamaica, there is obeah among the indigenous people of that region. I always thought that was an African term and it still could be. Or is it?!?

[Willi]

Fascinating.

[Assasin]

obeah??? What is the difference between Obeah, Witchcraft, Vodoo etc which is practice not only in Africa but on many different continents including Europe???

Some of this is some "semi quazi" religious belief that is just labeled. Maybe HL can tell us where the Crystal Ball came from, although I hate to hijack such a great topic.

[Mosiah]

obeah??? What is the difference between Obeah, Witchcraft, Vodoo etc which is practice not only in Africa but on many different continents including Europe???

Some of this is some "semi quazi" religious belief that is just labeled. Maybe HL can tell us where the Crystal Ball came from, although I hate to hijack such a great topic.

Perhaps I was not clear.

The Amerindian's witchcraft/black magic was also called obeah. Not sure of the spelling, but pretty fascinating it evens sounds similar. At least to me!

[Assasin]

ok thanks. That maybe where we got the name Obeah from then?? I have to research if to see if the "obeah" was used in West Africa.

[Gamma]

"rise of the city of spanish town"

[Historian]

Well Stated!

Then in speaking with the anthropologist on the minibus through Guyana's jungle, it strikes home to me again that these cultures are alive and well, and right here. And far more interesting than the awe factor and the opportunity for photos is the fact that they could actually be living fossils, so to speak, for insight and knowledge about our very own indigenous peoples.

This is right in our backyard. Guyana is not that far away. Between its interior and the Amazon jungle next door, there is a treasure trove of information. Remember, there are tribes from this region who are still referred to as Arawaks.

I’m just checking online, Mo, hence this rather late reply. What I like, in addition to your observations, is the firsthand knowledge that you have gained into a part of the rich mosaic that, essentially, is what New World culture (that is, the culture of the Americas) really is.

I particularly like your apt comments, which I decided to quote above.

[Gamma]

anyway if somebody is saying to you "i'm not dead" ... chances are, they are indeed not dead!