Don1 and others - Pres. Obama's full speech on NSA

[Karl]

Obama proposed significant changes to the PRISM programs, guidelines on surveillance at home & abroad and more independent oversight of the FISA court's secret decisions etc I expected much less from him

You may disagree but logical folks call those actions "reforms"

Hero Edward tuh di Whirlllllllllllllllllll

You are right, I disagree.
What I see is a 'tightening of operations'...and that shall lead to more efficient gathering of info and the uses to which put. ...and that is as it should be.

btw - You do notice that more 'lost US contractors and CIA operatives, etc.' are suddenly surfacing...held within enemies clutches?

Snowden has certainly done his country and those country-men proud. (emoticon for sarcasm).

[Don1]

No I have not noticed an uptick in "lost US contractors and CIA officers" resurfacing from "enemy clutches" LOL

I think you're watching too many Homeland TV shows

By claiming this is merely a'tightening of operations' I hope you realize that you're essentially calling Obama a liar

You may be correct in that assumption...but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt

Hero Edward tuh di Whirllllllllllllllll

[Karl]

Of course all humans are liars.
The circumstance under and extent to which one lies is the difference maker.

Some may claim the ultimate lie - I never lie! = I am not a liar!

...but that aside and back to Obama...he is a politician.

All politicians are human but my exposure to liars has me finding that politicians are the greatest of exponents on "inexactitude"...or as Winston Churchill once put it "terminological inexactitude".

In that same today's speech on the NSA he makes some statements that are the exact opposite of that 'mouthed' in the same speech. ...of such which am I to believe? ...which would let me based on my experiences and knowledge logically lead me to believe...accept? I know the concept which he uses frame to his speech, at least I think I do - He wishes to placate the sensibilities of the US citizens and for each listener to accept 'spying' as necessary and vital=for the citizen an indispensable tool to keep them and the nation safe. We (I) understand...but you cannot claim in such a speech on the one hand that foreign nations 'spy' and steal our intellectual, commercial and other property rights that is known by us as we keep tabs on them...and on the other tell we do not 'spy' on or do not use information our government finds.

E.g. He made reference to our weaponry being scrutinized and we know of same. Immediately we form assumptions of "the how" we gathered such knowledge. For me an association such as the Chinese sudden great advances on development of stealth technology following on ours suggests we have spied on their technology in that area and are keeping abreast of their advances...inclusive of any 'new' advances they have made.

...surely we would be using such info to update and hopefully make our systems - ability to 'see' their stealth products and hide ours from them - more efficient?

--- transfer such to other commercial activities - private and public. How in God's name can we not know it is vital...and therefore not accept that still we shall continue our 'spying'?

Fact is a careful listen or read of Obama's speech and he 'flat-out' says the opposite of 'not spying on foreign citizens and entities' and 'local counter-parts that are in cahoots with them or no'. ...and he wishes 'the citizens' to believe that that would be possible without following links between numbers of individuals...protection...non-spying on individuals/inclusive of the citizens?

What the speech really does is ask of us - WAKE-UP! ...and smell the coffee. As Lazie says, it asks of us to "get real".

[Don1]

Ok there are no reforms and Obama is a liar... I can accept that as reasonable

Hero Edward tuh di Whirlllllllllllllll

[Gamma]

Don't know the case but what have they done with the info? Having it is one thing, they could well be prevented from using it or abusing it in any way.

the need for protection from acts of mass destruction Must be balanced with the right to privacy. You have the righ to privacy to build an IED or other explosive in the privacy of your home and then take it out and set it somewhere to blow up something and the state must investigate it afterwards?

[Gamma]

clandestine or illegal? If it is illegal then there is recourse.

take Kartel for example, don't you think that even if he committed the crime, once they cannot prove it, he should walk?

[Bricktop]

it was ruled an illegal raid...how does that help now when the FBI has already cloned his hard drives & sent them out of new zealand where he resides? what recourse do you have? they froze kim dotcom's $175 mil accounts...after the search was ruled illegal the judge freed up $4 mil of it to pay legal costs...you have that kind a money?

[Gamma]

injunction. If it is illegal enjoin them and have them return it and destroy the clones.

Get an order to release the frozen assets and for the government to pay legal costs.

[Bricktop]

yeah...simple as that...and you don't need to hire a lawyer to do all of this...so if you are a regular Joe you have no chance...expect better from you...

[Gamma]

Didn't expect better from you. If you are regular Joe would you have 175 million in assets?

You cannot deal with it as abstraction, what is the damage? Possession of the I formation? How is it different for a regular Joe, as you put it, in any situation?

[Bricktop]

how is a regular joe to defend himself...what you don't understand about that...if dem decide to tek set on me for whatever reason...how do i defend myself...i don't have $4 million for legal defence...

[Gamma]

Public Defender or Legal Aid...

[Bricktop]

[Karl]

Ok there are no reforms and Obama is a liar... I can accept that as reasonable

Hero Edward tuh di Whirlllllllllllllll

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...2D8D7BF94FA7C1

---------

The Future of Privacy: What Lies Ahead
Meet the Press
January 19, 2014

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/meet-th...7625/#54117625