Seriously Historian

[Sir X]

Yuh need fi leggo sometings fi di new year, fi a big man,ridiculing all who support ganja legalization as being mentally lacking only shows your insecurity and immaturity on the subject,those days are as you say history.Its a billion dollar industry that covers every facet of life ,not just smoking it.

I dont see you mocking H.L ,and H.L will tell you of the ignorance he faces from the colonial schizophrenia which still exist in Jamaica about ganja,in regards to his business adventure.

You as a Jamaican given the harsh economic realities that exist in Jamaica should welcome this industry that will put us on a path of self reliance,2030 will make it a 100 years of institutionalising citizens without any regards for their human rights to justify colonial stigma of backwardness.

The colonial master himself has disregarded it , The chinese who are soon to make a big economic landing in Jamaica, have a trillion dollar hemp industry or at least half a billion,no doubt they see the potential in Jamaica ganja industry as they do the ports.

Its one thing to take a stand that you believe it has detrimental mental effects,its another to argue and ridiculoe those into continung literally bankrupt colonial schizophrenia,we simply cant afford it ,not in our legal system and that goes from wasting gas,legal paper work,housing,processing and hearing trival weed cases .All the studies show that its a cultural part of our history,70 to 80% use it in some form,so that a high percentage of ganja thats not being taxed in Jamaica.Which leads me to question your ignorance on its cultural use in Jamaica,everyone from academia to layman acknowledges this ! Why argue institutionalise or ridiculoe ?

You can at least take a lucid tone.

Happy Holidays.

[Mosiah]

HL's family is leading this re-evaluation of the ganja issue. Does Historian know this?

[HL]

X-man, sometimes we should agree to disagree.

Take you and I for example, we don't always see eye to eye...but I take it that we are still 'grounded'.

I fully respect Historian's view toward the legalization of weed. I think you should juss Let it be Starrrrr.

[Sir X]

OK sah.New Years resolution 6 days and counting.

[Jangle]

smoke a good sensimilia joint and I bet yuh can't even count pass 46 much less 6....~hic~....wait....smoke a good sensimilia joint and I bet yuh can't even count pass 64 much less 6......~hic-hic~.......24?....47?...Sh!t ......just go smoke some good weed

[Stonigut]

Interesting talk Jangle, what percentage of our ballers use weed actively between 10 and 20, what would your guess be?

[Sir X]

(4) The National Council on Drug Abuse (NCDA)
The Chairman of the NCDA presented to the Commission the position of the Council on the decriminalisation of ganja.
Premised on its mission to reduce the supply and demand of illicit substances and the abuse of licit ones, the Council works
with other agencies in implementing prevention projects.
The Council notes the important derivatives of ganja being marketed for medical use, but is aware of its acute effects, which
have implications for learning and motor skills, and the possible negative effects of chronic use on production in both the
private and public sectors. It is aware as well of the psychosis produced by excessive use and of marijuana-modified
psychiatric states, which worsen certain psychiatric illnesses.
Notwithstanding all this, and in light of the worse effects produced by other substances that are legally available, the
Council "support[s] the decriminalization of ganja, such as to allow the possession of small, specified quantities, by adults
for use within private premises," with a number of measures aimed at primary prevention, protection of the general public,
and rehabilitation of habituated users.
Decriminalisation would have to take into account Jamaica's obligations to the treaties and conventions it has signed and
ratified, but the Council "is aware that many countries are considering the modification of their laws in respect to Ganja."
What led the Council to adopt such a position? "I can tell you," replied the Chairman of the Council. "One-the way it
became a criminal act was totally unacceptable in this day and age. It should not have been there in the first place.
Two-when we examined the other substances now which are available and legal, we see that the damage that those things
cause are much more potent than the evidence we have for ganja…. When you think of alcohol, the organ damage which
results from alcohol you would be appalled-cancer of the throat, cancer of the stomach, cirrhosis of the liver, cancer of the
liver, testicular atrophy, brain damage, pancreatitis, heart disease-can I stop there? Okay, let's talk about tobacco-lung
cancer, throat cancer, cancers, emphysema, heart disease, hypertension. Those substances are legal and available. So, …12/26/13 Report of theNational Commission onGanja
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even though it has psychological influence, to use a splif should not be a criminal act."
The Council's position is the result of seminars and workshops, which included scientific and legal presentations.
(5) Medical Association of Jamaica
The President of the Medical Association of Jamaica spoke on behalf of the Association. The Association is of the view that
the present laws of criminalising people for small amounts "is probably having a worse effect than if it had been legalised,"
though the Association is not recommending legalisation. Possession of small amounts for personal use, within the confines
of the home and not in public places, as long as this does not impinge on the rights of others to be at peace with themselves,
could be decriminalised."
(6) The Chief Medical Officer
The Chief Medical Officer of Health, Dr Peter Figueroa, spoke to the Commission in his own individual capacity as an
epidemiologist. He began by reminding the Commission of the widespread cultural significance of ganja, substantiated by a
1993 lifestyle survey which found an "ever smoked" incidence of 37% among men of ages 15 to 49, and 10% among women
of similar age. Forty percent of these men and 22% of these women were what he would define as heavy users, that is they
smoked three or more times weekly. Listing some of the side-effects to both short-term and long-term use, he drew the
conclusion that "the use of ganja is adverse to good health and needs to be discouraged," but proposed that a different
approach ought to be adopted to those substances that are culturally endemic from those that are newly introduced into
society. "I am of the view," he said, "that criminalising ganja use when the use is personal and private does not make any
sense." It does not, because, if the objective is to reduce use, experience (certainly with cigarette smoking) shows that
prevention is more effective than treatment and rehabilitation. "[F]or me decriminalisation is simply a platform in order to
better control and prevent the use of ganja. My own view is that to try any kind of educational programme in a climate of
criminalisation, you are not going to get anywhere, given the endemic use and the strongly-held confirmed views."
But even in a decriminalised context, education, though necessary, will not be enough to make prevention successful.
Again, drawing from his wide experience with tobacco use, the Chief Medical Officer said: "There are studies to show that
where educational programmes are put in place with young people-serious programmes, starting from young age right
through school, if you don't have the other measures in place, what happens is [that] the cigarettes are promoted." Other
measures include limiting access through taxation and banning use in certain spaces, and serious health warnings with every
purchase. In the case of ganja these must include measures that provide an environment supportive of the education, such
as banning its use in public. "Decriminalisation," he emphasised, "is a platform for a strategic reduction of ganja use in the
society, not for freeing up a lifestyle." 12/26/13 Report of theNationa
(7) Political Leaders
The Commission presents the views of two leaders in representative politics, one a medical practitioner and member of the
Jamaica Labour Party (JLP), the other a practicing attorney and member of the People's National Party (PNP).
According to Dr Horace Chang, from a professional point of view "I don't see the risk involved in the use of ganja justifies it
being made an illegal drug." He reminded the Commission that from as early as the 1970s a youth organisation he had
established within the JLP called for decriminalisation. This position was taken to Parliament by Dr Percy Broderick, and
resulted in the setting up of a Joint Select Committee of the House and Senate. Nothing came of it, however, so "we have
kind of come full circle twenty-three years later".
The medical problem with ganja, as far as he saw, was ganja psychosis, which affected no more than 0.5% of users. Most
legal drugs had side effects, anyhow, often more serious and far-reaching than ganja. It was better, he felt, to educate
around the risks than to ban wholesale a substance that was quite clearly cultural.
He raised what he saw as a far greater problem, that of cocaine, and shared with us his opinion that for the amount of
cocaine seemingly passing through Jamaica, the number of persons addicted ought to have been greater. That it was not he
attributed to ganja.
"Culturally the strongest opponents [of cocaine] I find at the street level and in our poorer socio-economic group are people
who actually use ganja. I find [they] just take a position that the `white lady' will ensnare them". In other words, the culture
around ganja functions as a buffer against the spread of cocaine.
According to Mr Ronald Thwaites, ganja use by the young people in the constituency he represents in the city of Kingston,
"is very much an antidote to boredom, a sense of uselessness and an inability to, by other means of occupation and
recreation, actualise [their] best dreams."
He cites the example of some young men taken from his communities, the type who would have been smoking ganja, many
of them with criminal records, put through the National Youth Service programme of personal discipline and social
reconstruction, and who were so completely rehabilitated, that they were able to move into positions of assistant sports
masters in primary schools. Thus, once gainfully employed they have little need ganja.
For him, the prosecution of ganja, especially with respect to small quantities, and the way the interdiction is carried out, only
serves to bring the law into disrepute. "One thing that the law must never do is fly in the face of the mores of a people for an
extended period of time, where despite consistent interdiction, education and a standard being maintained by the law, it is
still consistently at odds with their dominant social pattern".
Of far greater concern is crack/cocaine. "If I", said Mr Thwaites, "were ever to resile from being an abolitionist [as far as12/26/13 Report of theNational Commission onGanja
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capital punishment is concerned], it would not be so much for murder as for the purveyors of the hard drugs, and cocaine
especially. Those who spread cocaine in this community and crack, are not only murderers, they are mass murderers. And it
is a reproach to the system of Government and the canons of law-abiding behaviour that we spend our time and our money
voted for national security running after small quantities of ganja when I can identify for you-and I have identified for the
police and the Ministry of National Security, at least four crack houses in this constituency, and nothing has been done!"
This double standard, he was sure, was not lost on the people. It set "their teeth on edge against the law, against the whole
tissue of social authority."
He concluded that, though not personally in favour of the use of ganja, it ought no longer to be proscribed by criminal law
(8) Law Enforcement Officers
Also not to be ignored are the views of law enforcement officers. We first interviewed a retired Assistant Commissioner of
Police, and a Sergeant of Police.
(i) The retired Assistant Commissioner of Police, with forty active years in the JCF at all levels, interacting with the general
public, observing the changes in beliefs over the period, and being party to the enforcement efforts before, during and after
the period of mandatory sentencing, comes to the position that the possession of cannabis below a certain weight should not
be a crime. That it has remained for so long on our statutes as a crime, which, aside from the sentence one serves, remains
on one's record "is one of the most destructive aspects", one that has "a most deleterious effect on our young people".
In support of decriminalisation for private purposes, he is of the opinion that the relations between police and citizen, in
particular the poor, was flawed by our failure at Independence to inculcate within the Force "a deep respect for the
individual and the individual's home, however humble". The power to enter and search a home is a power that normally
should not be granted easily in legislation to the law enforcers.
"To be frank", according to a Sergeant of Police of a very large station, "for the small amount I think it costs the
Government more to bring a person to court, than it costs the person. Because the paper that you write it on maybe costs
more."
The officer expressed the view that ganja smoking does not of itself contribute to crime. What does is the prohibition that
drives cultivation and trafficking underground. "Whatever contribution to crime is like a person plants [and] somebody
comes in to steal it. That is where the crime comes in. But to say that because somebody use it they go out there and steal, I
don't think that is a fact".
(9) His Grace the Most Reverend Roman Catholic Archbishop of Kingston 12/26/13 Report of theNational Commission onGanja
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His Grace, the Archbishop, presented to the Commission the view that ganja use ought not to be criminal. He based this
conclusion on three principles. The first was the theological approach that in creating the world and everything in it, God
created them good and created them for the use of mankind. Second, God invested in mankind stewardship and dominion
over all things. This required mankind to investigate, with a view to understanding, the qualities and capabilities of the
various plants and herbs, including even noxious ones. And third, in the exercise of dominion, mankind was also expected to
exercise responsibility. "We always teach people, `Everything in moderation'. Anything that we do in excess, or abuse, is
going to have ill-effects upon us."
Based on these principles, His Grace confirmed that the decriminalisation of ganja for private use would have the blessing
of the Roman Catholic Church. He emphasised that the views he expressed were personally shared by his fellow Bishops in
Jamaica.
Moderation being one of the principles on which their position stood, His Grace saw no necessity to regulate quantities, and
would therefore support the conscientious use by certain people for religious purposes. "My thing is to respect a person's
conscience and anything done in moderation, not abused. And if they see that it is something than can assist them in their
prayer life and in approaching the divine, and [if] they genuinely and sincerely believe that God has provided it for them to
assist them in that, then I can't say to that `It is immoral'. And I can say to the Government to decriminalise it, unless the
Government can say it is going to be abused in [the] act of worship."
(10) His Lordship, the Anglican Bishop of Jamaica
"[To] be consistent with Christian morality," the Lord Bishop said, "the fact that you are against something does not mean
that it should be a criminal offence. I can think of maybe a thousand things that I would classify as one, and they are not
criminal offences. In saying that, I would have no problem in decriminalising limited private use by adults of marijuana,
without compromising my position that it is not something that [one] would consider to be good or healthy or right." Sharing
with the Commission views from a paper he had written on the subject in 1977 at the request of the Bishop at that time,
which he remains in substantial agreement with, he distinguishes the recreational from the medicinal and religious uses of
ganja. He supports the decriminalisation for private medicinal and religious use, but has reservations about recreational
use, because, although ganja is not addictive, it exposes young people to other more dangerous substances. But, agreeing
that in practical terms, it would be difficult to decriminalise for private and religious but not for recreational use, he declares
it unjust for any law to target, as this one does, the young, vulnerable and poor. "If the intention is to protect the morality of
these young people, then you certainly cannot protect it by sending them to prison where they will mix with hardened
criminals and come out as criminals, whereas they were not before and needn't have been." Morality cannot be legislated,
he says. Ways need to be found, he concludes, to reduce demand through alternative activities "that people could find more12/26/13 Report of theNational Commission onGanja
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wholesome" in achieving the same objectives.
(11) Lord Anthony Gifford
Lord Gifford in an early appearance before the Commission spoke to a written brief he presented in support of the
decriminalisation of ganja, but arguing as well for its complete legalisation. Cautioning that he was not himself a user of
ganja, but that his approach was that of a human rights advocate, Lord Gifford made the following points.
In the first place, "if there is a substance which is derived from something naturally grown which gives a lot of pleasure to
some, it should not in principle be bad just because it may be abused by others." From a spiritual point of view, it is better to
encourage people to use responsibly what God has given. Secondly, educating people, especially young adults, is more
effectively done on the basis that something is permitted but that they should exercise caution with it. Thirdly, the
prosecution of so many unfortunate defendants, most of them for smoking splifs, is nothing short of a violation of their
human rights.
Drawing attention to the conundrum that would ensue were possession and use to be decriminalised but production and
trafficking not, he urged the Commission "to grasp the nettle" and recommend that it be legalised. Only thus would ganja be
extracted from the criminal fraternity, and a regime laid down to allow it to be grown, bought and sold, subject to basic
controls.
He found The Netherlands solution, where ganja is decriminalised for use in specially designated cafes, but still illegal, as
"a kind of half-way compromise", which nonetheless, by separating ganja from hard drugs, has had the partial effect of
reducing the use of the latter.
Lord Gifford drew the attention of the Commission to a recent judgment handed down by the Canadian court, which found
the sanction against self-administered use of marijuana for medical conditions a violation of the right to liberty. In his
opinion the Jamaica's ganja laws are in violation of human rights.

[Stonigut]

Funny thing this USA Gallup poll report the same number of "ever used" at 38%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/163835/tr...anged-80s.aspx

The real question is when we look at our ballers between say 14 and 20 does that number get significantly higher and does consistent use impact the speed and quality of decision making and passing on players thus compromising a significant portion of the talent pool.

[Sir X]

Our ballers ,you think the numbers are any different in the states where drug use among youths are prevelant ?

You falling into a trap,you think basketball players ,football players cognitive ability are questioned because they come from the projects ? or kids from the suburbs who experiment with all kinds of legal and illegal drugs ?

Is it any different in Britain , with the rum ead and drug culture ?

I have a problem with your subjective stereotyping, I believe we all lived in Jamaica and we know the hard stand we took against any drug when participating in competitive sports, I personally have never heard of or seen a youth in pepsi,colts or manning bun a spliff before competiting in a competitive setting.Doesnt mean it doesn't exist but if so ,its probably negligebile to minute,like Rio Ferdinand on weed out of how man pro ballers in the English league.

I have seen it done out of a competitive setting and the numbers were minute.

[Stonigut]

Alright X we just talking, I not really worried about other places just want to get best from what we have. What I saw was a little different than what you saw. I saw significant use not at school but more on the neighborhood side during non competition ball time especially.

Back to your former point the only times I have ever been offered was in USA, New York and Miami.

[Sir X]

Lol..same here man bun I'm spliff inna street league and run ball same way. I couldn't tell the difference.