Wailers or W,S&B

[Rudi]

Question for all: Which was the better band Wailers or Word, Sound & Power?

[Historian]

Re: Which was the better band?

Question for all: Which was the better band Wailers or Word, Sound & Power?

For me, there is no question that I rate Word, Sound and Power more highly than the Wailers.

If you look carefully at the individual players in either version of Peter Tosh’s band, the individual musicians were definitely generally more accomplished and more diverse than those from Bob’s band:

Tosh’s drummers Sly Dunbar (original version of Word, Sound and Power) and Carlton “Santa” Davis (who replaced Sly), are without question technically superior drummers when compared with the Wailers’ Carlton Barrett.

George “Fully” Fullwood, who was at home with various genres, including jazz, was a more diverse bass player than the rather limited Aston “Family Man” Barrett. (However, I regard Aston Barrett more highly than I do the original bassist for Tosh’s band, Robbie Shakespeare.)

Regarding lead guitarists, both bands are about equal as the American blues guitarists Al Anderson (Wailers and Word, Sound and Power) and Donald Kinsey (Word, Sound and Power) were both very capable and very tasteful soloists. However, I rate the Wailers as being equal in the lead guitar department only because of Al Anderson. With the addition of Junior Marvin, the quality of lead guitar playing for the Wailers slipped noticeably. Marvin was definitely no Anderson or Kinsey!

Former Jamaica School of Music instructor and author Steve Golding was, without question, a more technically advanced rhythm guitarist than Bob Marley was.

The role of the keyboardist in reggae music has always been a rather simplistic, restrained one, and so it is very difficult for me to adequately compare the Wailers’ Tyrone Downie with Robbie Lynn and Keith Sterling.

[Historian]

In Addition....

I deliberately did not touch on the harmony singers, but I have always regarded Bob Marley’s underutilizing of his three wonderful female singers as being rather shortsighted. It makes no sense having three accomplished singers such as these ladies and having them singing short, sparse lines every now and then!

Nevertheless, I am not able at this time to make a proper comparison between the Tamlins (backup singers from Word, Sound and Power) with Marley’s the I-Threes.

In the final analysis, though, the Wailers have benefited much from having a superstar front man, Bob Marley.

[Assasin]

To me Word, Sound and Power was an allstar band put togather while the Wailers was Bob's Backing band.

SB and P couldn't last as some were already moonlighting other places(Sly and Robbie). While the sound was good the band couldn't last playing as Peter backup. Again as you said they both had good backup singers. While the Wailers were mostly comfortable with bob been a star, most of the Peter's band knew they were stars in their own rights. While the sound was good I can't see the that band lasting.

[Historian]

And I Fully Share Your Views

To me Word, Sound and Power was an allstar band put togather while the Wailers was Bob's Backing band.

SB and P couldn't last as some were already moonlighting other places(Sly and Robbie). While the sound was good the band couldn't last playing as Peter backup. Again as you said they both had good backup singers. While the Wailers were mostly comfortable with bob been a star, most of the Peter's band knew they were stars in their own rights. While the sound was good I can't see the that band lasting.

I fully agree with everything you’ve stated here.

Like you correctly said, Word, Sound and Power was an all-star band and not a permanent backing band like the Wailers were. In fact, Sly and Robbie didn’t last long as they soon switched to backing Black Uhuru.

Notwithstanding the fact that I fully agree with everything you said in your post above, my comments still stand, ‘Sass . There is no way that the individual members of Bob’s backing band the Wailers, could measure up to the individual abilities of Word, Sound and Power band members.

But like you stated, an aggregation like Word, Sound and Power (with big egos, other individual commitments, etc.) was unlikely to last very long as a backup band for Tosh. But it was a very good band while it lasted.

By the way, Rudi’s question (thread) is a very interesting one, and lends itself to useful discussion.

[Assasin]

I will never forget as youth one day I was going Lincoln Road and when I pass retirement road, I saw a long line outside the studio there, and I was wondering what was happening and ask and one aspiring entertainer tell me "Sly and Robbie dey ya so we have to line up fi get a tune". The next day it was Bunny Wailer's Solomonic studio. I said this because they were in demand and along with others, like Robbie Lyn, Chinna etc. who freelanced with Tosh band too. Bob band was pretty much Bob's band. The sound from both was great anyhow and should be the standard we use.

The last good reggae band I really heard live was "We the people band" with Lloyd Parkes and it reminded of the crisp sound can be. It has been a while.

[Historian]

Also....

By the way, I forgot to mention that the core of musicians in the second version of Word, Sound and Power were drawn from that outstanding reggae band, the Soul Syndicate.

The 1970s produced some really, really good Jamaican bands that stretched the boundaries of reggae. Do you remember the following outstanding cutting edge, nontraditional groups?

Native (from Ocho Rios)
Third World
Zap-Pow
Harold Butler and his various associates

[Assasin]

Who can forget the "Stalag 17" by that group? after Peter they mostly became a part of the Taxi Gang in the early stages.

Native was good but didn't record a lot locally.
Third world is master.
Zapow didn't last partially because of Harold's sickness but was a good band. He also started a band called Jah Armi, it had two wicked songs but he was off the scene. What you think about Robbie Lyn and Tyrone Downie?

[Historian]

Re: Lyn and Downie

Who can forget the "Stalag 17" by that group? after Peter they mostly became a part of the Taxi Gang in the early stages.

Native was good but didn't record a lot locally.
Third world is master.
Zapow didn't last partially because of Harold's sickness but was a good band. He also started a band called Jah Armi, it had two wicked songs but he was off the scene. What you think about Robbie Lyn and Tyrone Downie?

Simply stated, Robbie Lyn, Tyrone Downie and Jackie Mittoo are probably the three most important keyboardists in post-1960s Jamaican music. In fact, their importance is comparable to that of rocksteady guitarist Lyn Tait. These keyboard players have recorded and/or toured with virtually everyone who is important in reggae music!

On a personal level, I like Robbie Lyn very much. He’s a humble guy whose natural abilities on the keyboard have never been fully credited, in my opinion. People like Robbie Lyn and guitarist Willie Lindo (Willie’s sister was once my best friend) are fully committed to their instruments, and they put a great deal of time into practicing and perfecting their abilities! I cannot recall ever meeting Tyrone.

One of my problems with reggae instrumentation is the virtually secondary role within which keyboard players function. The keyboard plays primarily blocked chords like the rhythm guitar, and is such an integral part of the rhythm that it is oftentimes not even particularly noticeable. This is in stark contrast with the prominent role of the bass and the drums.

[Assasin]

I would like to say to you when I go back and listen some of the greats like these two, I would say is more how the music is arrange sometimes. It more that the musician before were concerned with making sounds and nowadays the trend is to make music. Here you can hear the instruments distinctly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhQxNDAKY-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v64jglg7lI8

[Historian]

I'm a Bit Lost

I would like to say to you when I go back and listen some of the greats like these two, I would say is more how the music is arrange sometimes. It more that the musician before were concerned with making sounds and nowadays the trend is to make music. Here you can hear the instruments distinctly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhQxNDAKY-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v64jglg7lI8

‘Sass, you ALWAYS make sense, and I always understand and often agree with what you say. However, this time (probably for the first time ever) you’ve lost me, boss.

I listened to the YouTube videos of the Revolutionaries “MPLA” (a true classic), but I am not sure what you are explaining in this post. If at all possible, can you state the point in another way?

[Assasin]

What I am saying is in these two very good classics you can clearly hear each instrument and tell them different. What I am saying is if the music is properly arranged in some cases you can distintly tell the keyboard from the riddim guitar. You can see the difference with the musical arrangement with a lot the current reggae with the execption of a few producers.

[Historian]

We'll Disagree On This One

What I am saying is in these two very good classics you can clearly hear each instrument and tell them different. What I am saying is if the music is properly arranged in some cases you can distintly tell the keyboard from the riddim guitar. You can see the difference with the musical arrangement with a lot the current reggae with the execption of a few producers.

But ‘Sass, except for the part where the organ repeats/echoes the horn phrase, the keyboard and the wah wah (pedal effect) rhythm guitar lock in together. This recording “MPLA” by the Revolutionaries simply supports my point!

Listen carefully. In the samples you have provided, it is representative of the typical traditional reggae arrangement where the bass and drums play the lead role and the keyboards and the rhythm guitar play supporting, background, simultaneous lines! The only difference with this Sly and Robbie recording is that the horns – and not singers – are at the forefront! There is little about the keyboard playing that is special!

Now, check out these two samples that I am providing below from probably the best band that Jamaica has ever produced -- Third World -- to see what I mean. Ibo Cooper is an excellent keyboard player, and so as you can see, the keyboard parts are very distinct from the rhythm guitar. Very few Jamaican keyboards fill out a song in such creative ways:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXeY74ttezU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dTQqt-2nM