Happy Birthday to two Jamaican Greats

[Reggaedoc]

Happy birthday to Clement "Sir Coxsone" Dodd and the greatest Jamaican born producer, songwriter and arranger, the great Thom Bell. He along with Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff created what is known as the Philadelphia sound. They formed Mighty Three Music which published all the great music that came out of Philly through Philadelphia International. Thom Bell was either songwriter, arranger or producer of many of the hits of the Delfonics, the O'jays, Archie Bell and the Drells, Dusty Springfield, Jerry Butler, the Stylistics, the Spinners, Billy Paul, Ronnie Dyson, Elton John, Johnny Mathis, Deniece Williams, and James Ingram. Happy 70th Mr. Bell.

[Mosiah]

My ratings for Thom Bell are through the roof! TSOP is one of my favourite "genres" of all time! Still can't believe is a yardman give the world that!

Yeah, Sir Coxsone did his thing too!

Happy Birthday fi real!

[Historian]

Jamaica Deserves Very Little Credit

My ratings for Thom Bell are through the roof! TSOP is one of my favourite "genres" of all time! Still can't believe is a yardman give the world that!

Overreaction on your part, I think.

Thom Bell migrated from Jamaica as a baby and was raised in the USA where he received his education and socialization. In the USA, he studied classical music and also had every intention of eventually becoming a classical orchestra conductor.

His rigid music education in the USA -- he was really firmly grounded in his study of classical music -- was in my opinion the key to Bell’s enormous success (just listen to Thom Bell’s arrangements in his hits of the 1970s!), as was his meeting Gamble and Huff.

So, while Thom Bell indeed has his roots in Jamaica, where he was born to Jamaican parents and is in every sense of the word a “Jamaican native,” the island of Jamaica and Jamaican society contributed VERY LITTLE to Bell’s growth and development in the career of music. In fact, I have never come across any signs whatsoever in his arrangements that he was influenced by any aspect of mento, ska, rocksteady or reggae.

Nicki Minaj is a native of Trinidad &Tobago (yes, Exile, remember that ridiculous argument we had?) because of the fact that Nicki was born there. However, T&T can claim very little – if any - credit for her immense recording success.

Now, in the case of Jamaican-born, raised, educated and trained stalwarts like Usain Bolt, Shelly-Ann Fraser, Yohan Blake, Asafa Powell, Sherone Simpson, and Warren Weir (who have literally lived all their lives in Jamaica), the world can make NO claim whatsoever! The same goes for our other national treasures like Bob Marley and Jimmy Cliff.

Sometimes we need to just keep things in perspective.

[Reggaedoc]

Overreaction on your part, I think.

Thom Bell migrated from Jamaica as a baby and was raised in the USA where he received his education and socialization. In the USA, he studied classical music and also had every intention of eventually becoming a classical orchestra conductor.

His rigid music education in the USA -- he was really firmly grounded in his study of classical music -- was in my opinion the key to Bell’s enormous success (just listen to Thom Bell’s arrangements in his hits of the 1970s!), as was his meeting Gamble and Huff.

So, while Thom Bell indeed has his roots in Jamaica, where he was born to Jamaican parents and is in every sense of the word a “Jamaican native,” the island of Jamaica and Jamaican society contributed VERY LITTLE to Bell’s growth and development in the career of music. In fact, I have never come across any signs whatsoever in his arrangements that he was influenced by any aspect of mento, ska, rocksteady or reggae.

Nicki Minaj is a native of Trinidad &Tobago (yes, Exile, remember that ridiculous argument we had?) because of the fact that Nicki was born there. However, T&T can claim very little – if any - credit for her immense recording success.

Now, in the case of Jamaican-born, raised, educated and trained stalwarts like Usain Bolt, Shelly-Ann Fraser, Yohan Blake, Asafa Powell, Sherone Simpson, and Warren Weir (who have literally lived all their lives in Jamaica), the world can make NO claim whatsoever! The same goes for our other national treasures like Bob Marley and Jimmy Cliff.

Sometimes we need to just keep things in perspective.

Sorry Storian, Thom Bell is the greatest Jamaican born, like I said, arranger, songwriter, and producer. Hands down. None other comes close. His migration to US as a child does not take away from that. He is a son of the soil. Plain and simple.

[Mosiah]

I disagree, Historian.

I am aware of the fact that Bell was not brought up in Jamaica, but for his Jamaican parents to afford him whatever education he received, musical and otherwise, means to me that Jamaica made him who is is.

Also, there must have been some musical influence and appreciation that rubbed off on him from his two Jamaican parents. So, for me, Jamaica contributed.

The other day when I pointed out that Junior of Mama Used to Say fame had Jamaican parents, someone commented that he should have known, given the "Mama" in the song.

I can think of numerous Forumites whose American-born children are heavily influenced by their Jamaican culture. Whatever, they become as adults is partially a result of that influence, a Jamaican influence.

It's the same thing as when a footballer, like Raheem Sterling, goes to live abroad from a very young age. I believe his parents, at least the father, could very well have influenced how he develops.

The contribution is certainly not direct but its a contribution nonetheless.

If it is not viewed in that manner, then what allows us to give a player like Jobi McAnuff the right to play for Jamaica?!?

But, Historian, you did say, "...Jamaican society contributed very little..." So, I guess it's a matter of degree. My little is more than yours!

I appreciate your perspective, however, Historian!

[Reggaedoc]

Harry Belafonte was born in Harlem, of Jamaican parents, and sang songs written by a Barbadian. We still claim him, and nothing is wrong with that. He had no control over where he was born, just as much as Thom Bell had no control over where his parents migrated to as a child. Pat Ewing never learned to play Basketball in Jamaica, indeed if his parents never took him to the USA as a child, he probably would not have turned out to be the great basketball player that he was. Mr. Bell deserves no less. Sorry Storian. Cherry picking not valid here.

[Historian]

I Completely Disagree!!!

Sorry Storian, Thom Bell is the greatest Jamaican born, like I said, arranger, songwriter, and producer. Hands down. None other comes close. His migration to US as a child does not take away from that. He is a son of the soil. Plain and simple.

‘Doc and Mo, I’m not sure you understand what I am saying! As such, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Think about this question: He was born in England and came to Jamaica as a child, but is England or Jamaica more responsible for Chris Blackwell’s eventual greatness as a record producer? This is a serious question that I want you both to ponder!

Now let’s look closely at Clement “Sir Coxsone” Dodd by way of comparison with the American music giant Thom Bell and the opportunities available to both.

Like many other poor Jamaicans at the time, Coxsone Dodd made the sensible decision to migrate and work on a sugar plantation (in the American South) on a short-term contract. It was on his return from his first trip as a farm worker that he brought back the first pieces of equipment for the studio he was painstakingly building, Jamaica Publishing and Recording Studio.

Subsequent trips on the farm work program enabled the intelligent and very business-savvy Dodd to bring back the stuff for his fledging recording studio, which he finally completed around 1963 (after renting other people’s studios for years).

Thom Bell, in the meantime, had access to quality classical music training in the USA, an opportunity that almost certainly would not have been available to him had he remained in Jamaica.

By the way, as I stated this morning, I have NEVER heard even a glimmer of Jamaican musical influences in the work of Thom Bell.

All that I am saying, gentlemen, is that the environment and the influences and the opportunity to study music at a high level in the “land of opportunity” contributed to Thom Bell’s greatness (note that he was an arranger and songwriter in addition to being a producer) MUCH MORE than the fact that he was born in Jamaica!!! If he had remained in Jamaica as a youth during the 1960s, would he have had the opportunity to study classical music a the level he did, and would he have been fortunate to meet Kenny Gamble (whose role in Bell’s rise is very important)?

(P.S.: I note that Clement “Sir Coxsone” Dodd is regarded by many people as a “great” record producer, despite the fact that he merely provided the financing and the studio environment for his talented musicians and recording engineers (for example, Lee Perry) to work in. Dodd did a bit of engineering in the very early years of his Jamaica Recording and Publishing Studio, but as I said in another post a week or so ago, his first important engineer was Sid Bucknor, and among his early talented studio musicians was Jackie Mittoo.)

I think I have made my point as well as I am able to, and so will walk away from this topic for now. Incidentally, my next post on Sir Coxsone might be a discussion of his major role in the early break-up of the Skatalites.

Respect, gentlemen.

[Mosiah]

Fine!

I will spend the rest of my afternoon listening to some of the greatest popular music ever made.

I invite y'all to do the same.

Hey, it doesn't get any better than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cb8ZUpAr94

[Mosiah]

This is why one should read widely and perhaps wildly to get to the truth:

1943
Thomas Bell is born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Really?!?!

1959
Joins Kenny Gamble's harmony group, The Romeos

1965
Hired as a staff writer and touring conductor for singer Chubby Checker

1967
After leaving Checker's company, signs as a session pianist with Cameo Records, where he first works with the local soul group, the Delfonics

1968
Joins the Delfonics' new record label as a producer on their first album. The album included the smash hit LA LA MEANS I LOVE YOU.

1968
LA LA MEANS I LOVE YOU reaches #4 on the pop charts with a recording by the Delfonics

1970
The Delfonics recording of DIDN'T I BLOW YOUR MIND THIS TIME reaches #10 on the pop charts

1972
The Stylistics recording of BETCHA BY GOLLY WOW reaches #3 on the pop charts

1972
I'LL BE AROUND reaches #3 on the pop charts with a recording by The Spinners

1972
The Stylistics recording of I'M STONE IN LOVE WITH YOU reaches #10 on the pop charts

1972
YOU ARE EVERYTHING reaches #9 on the pop charts with a recording by the Stylistics

1972
Produces the debut album by the Stylistics which includes his songs BETCHA BY GOLLY WOW and YOU ARE EVERYTHING

1972
Producer and arranger on the O'Jays' album, Backstabbers

1973
BREAK UP TO MAKE UP reaches #5 on the pop charts with a recording by the Stylistics

1973
The Spinners' recording of GHETTO CHILD reaches the top thirty on the pop charts

1973
I'M DOING FINE NOW reaches #17 on the pop charts with a recording by New York City

1973
ROCKIN' ROLL BABY reaches #14 on the pop charts with a recording by the Stylistics

1973
Produces the Spinners' debut album which includes his songs I'LL BE AROUND and GHETTO CHILD

1973
Produces Johnny Mathis' album I'm Coming Home

1974
The Spinners' recording of I'M COMING HOME reaches the top twenty on the pop charts

1974
YOU MAKE ME FEEL BRAND NEW reaches #2 on the pop charts with a recording by the Stylistics

1974
Produces the Spinners' album Mighty Love

1975
Produces the Spinners' album Pick of the Litter

1975
Wins the Grammy award for Producer of the Year for Mighty Love

1976
RUBBERBAND MAN reaches #2 on the pop charts with a recording by the Spinners

1977
Collaborates with Elton John. The sessions were released on the EP Mama Can't Buy You Love 20 years after they were recorded.

1981
Tierra's cover recording of the 1968 #4 hit song LA LA MEANS I LOVE YOU reaches #72 on the pop charts

1982
Produces two albums for Deniece Williams

1989
New Kids on the Block's cover recording of the 1970 top ten song DIDN'T I BLOW YOUR MIND THIS TIME reaches #8 on the pop charts

1991
Cynthia's cover of the 1973 #5 hit song BREAK UP TO MAKE UP reaches #70 on the pop charts

1996
Prince's cover of the 1972 #3 hit song BETCHA BY GOLLY WOW reaches #31 on the pop charts

2006
Inducted in the Songwriters Hall of Fame

Source:
http://www.songwritershalloffame.org/timeline/C349

So, is it fact that he was good friends with Bob Marley? Could that have influenced something? Remember, Jamaicans had for a very long time loved American music.

Sorry, I have started the fight again. Let's just listen to some TSOP and enjoy the Sunday afternoon.

[Mosiah]

Sorry, I am a huge, unapologetic fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5gi5pMLYM

Enjoy this interview!

[Karl]

Just asking - Wonder on the level of influence his parents and their 'culture'/'roots' had?

Did they shape in any way how his thought process ( - inclusive of how he thought as he 'created' music - 'ran'? Was that his 'Jamaicaness' the essense of his core being? ...if not to what extent did that influence 'the man'?

Just asking/wondering if...????

Dun kno wi Jamaken nuh ley-guh wi 'Jamaicaness' jus suh!!!

btw - I only knew of Philly being 'over-run' with Jamaicans during the 90's. What influence outside of the known 'drug-running' and working in the medical field (nurses, hospital and nursing homes workers, etc., galore...and our Jamaica Patty Shops) do we have there? When did we become a known recognisable group in Philly?

[Don1]

Just asking - Wonder on the level of influence his parents and their 'culture'/'roots' had?

Did they shape in any way how his thought process ( - inclusive of how he thought as he 'created' music - 'ran'? Was that his 'Jamaicaness' the essense of his core being? ...if not to what extent did that influence 'the man'?

Just asking/wondering if...????

Dun kno wi Jamaken nuh ley-guh wi 'Jamaicaness' jus suh!!!

btw - I only knew of Philly being 'over-run' with Jamaicans during the 90's. What influence outside of the known 'drug-running' and working in the medical field (nurses, hospital and nursing homes workers, etc., galore...and our Jamaica Patty Shops) do we have there? When did we become a known recognisable group in Philly?

Penn Relays made that recognition possible in Philly

[Jangle]

I was ready to back Histy in this debate, but Mosiah, yours blew his argument and premise away.

[Mosiah]

Thanks. Just some friendly exchange of views between Historian and myself.

In my readings of the great Thom Bell, it is said he was not just a close friend of Bob Marley but worked on some stuff for him as well.

I understand Historian's point of view but don't agree. And like I said, I would not give Jamaica most of the credit either. His teenage friends, Gamble and Huff, probably influenced his musical tastes more than anything or anyone else.

We can all agree that the music was great. Even Bricktop thinks so!

[Reggaedoc]

‘Doc and Mo, I’m not sure you understand what I am saying! As such, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Think about this question: He was born in England and came to Jamaica as a child, but is England or Jamaica more responsible for Chris Blackwell’s eventual greatness as a record producer? This is a serious question that I want you both to ponder!

Now let’s look closely at Clement “Sir Coxsone” Dodd by way of comparison with the American music giant Thom Bell and the opportunities available to both.

Like many other poor Jamaicans at the time, Coxsone Dodd made the sensible decision to migrate and work on a sugar plantation (in the American South) on a short-term contract. It was on his return from his first trip as a farm worker that he brought back the first pieces of equipment for the studio he was painstakingly building, Jamaica Publishing and Recording Studio.

Subsequent trips on the farm work program enabled the intelligent and very business-savvy Dodd to bring back the stuff for his fledging recording studio, which he finally completed around 1963 (after renting other people’s studios for years).

Thom Bell, in the meantime, had access to quality classical music training in the USA, an opportunity that almost certainly would not have been available to him had he remained in Jamaica.

By the way, as I stated this morning, I have NEVER heard even a glimmer of Jamaican musical influences in the work of Thom Bell.

All that I am saying, gentlemen, is that the environment and the influences and the opportunity to study music at a high level in the “land of opportunity” contributed to Thom Bell’s greatness (note that he was an arranger and songwriter in addition to being a producer) MUCH MORE than the fact that he was born in Jamaica!!! If he had remained in Jamaica as a youth during the 1960s, would he have had the opportunity to study classical music a the level he did, and would he have been fortunate to meet Kenny Gamble (whose role in Bell’s rise is very important)?

(P.S.: I note that Clement “Sir Coxsone” Dodd is regarded by many people as a “great” record producer, despite the fact that he merely provided the financing and the studio environment for his talented musicians and recording engineers (for example, Lee Perry) to work in. Dodd did a bit of engineering in the very early years of his Jamaica Recording and Publishing Studio, but as I said in another post a week or so ago, his first important engineer was Sid Bucknor, and among his early talented studio musicians was Jackie Mittoo.)

I think I have made my point as well as I am able to, and so will walk away from this topic for now. Incidentally, my next post on Sir Coxsone might be a discussion of his major role in the early break-up of the Skatalites.

Respect, gentlemen.

No no Storian. A Jamaican doesn't have to produce Jamaican music, write Jamaican music, or arrange Jamaican music to be a great Jamaican producer, songwriter, or Jamaican arranger. I think you are confusing a Jamacan producer with a producer of Jamaican music. The Blackwell reference is irrelevant to this particular discussion.