Wanted Innovative Jamaican musicians

[Assasin]

if you ask me most of the current riddims are boring. Gone are the days when musicians use to look for creative sounds. Gone are the days when you had some good horns, When you had some good drum role and different sounds, different intruments that made you guess what it was, some good good break down, engineers speeding up parts and then slowing down parts or doing some parts acapella. Some good wicked jingles and adlives to make up a song. Protools and other engineer music can be boring if you don't have the right engineer.

You didn't have to listen to the lead vocals. That is what made Jamaican music great. of interest Kyawne West sample Fuzzy Jones inna him song. who would have thought that.

[Historian]

Well, Well, Well....

if you ask me most of the current riddims are boring. Gone are the days when musicians use to look for creative sounds. Gone are the days when you had some good horns, When you had some good drum role and different sounds, different intruments that made you guess what it was, some good good break down, engineers speeding up parts and then slowing down parts or doing some parts acapella. Some good wicked jingles and adlives to make up a song. Protools and other engineer music can be boring if you don't have the right engineer.

You didn't have to listen to the lead vocals. That is what made Jamaican music great. of interest Kyawne West sample Fuzzy Jones inna him song. who would have thought that.

‘Sass, a simple question, if you don’t mind: Is this your viewpoint or are you quoting someone (I’m aware, of course, that there are no quotation marks)? If it is your point of view, are you being genuine or are you being sarcastic?

I ask simply because what you have typed above represents my consistent theme since my first post here in 2002! The issues you have raised are basically the things I’ve been saying over and over and over again, and in the face of sometimes angry retort! Often I’ve done so in roundabout ways, including attacking unimaginative record producers, and at other times even listing Jamaican musicians who I consider to be outstanding or brilliant in technique, and so on.

What you have done above is encapsulated issues/concerns that I’ve often focused on.

Other concerned music lovers too, in particular Reggaedoc, HL, TDowl, and to a lesser extent Siccko, have also included some of these concerns in music comments they have made on this forum over the years.

Well, well, well....

[Assasin]

that is my post and I have been saying all along. The difference is some people don't like Dancehall and think it is a end all. It is also not that we don't have good singers and musicians as in the past.

The fact is there are some good musicians who are lazy too. The just play the same thing without even thinking of spicing up the thing. No solo or change in their sound. Even recently Islandman said show Tony Kelly producer of the 90s shared my view about too much American strings in the music right now.

Historian I share some of your view but Reggae shares the same problem dancehall share. When I see peopld post with hate towards dancehall it just remember me of the hate people had towards reggae and dutty rasta. Now them listening to Bob Marley and Dennis Brown like them nuh bias.

My point is to support the good and imaginative artists who are trying to keep the standard, don't throw them out with the heap, because with all the greats we had a very mixed bag. There are some very good young singers and musicians out there that needs the support of You, HL and Reggaedoc.

[Exile]

Notice mi no even get honourable mention...

[Sir X]

nuh worry a nuh you alone...lol

[Historian]

A Case of Misunderstanding?

Historian I share some of your view but Reggae shares the same problem dancehall share. When I see peopld post with hate towards dancehall it just remember me of the hate people had towards reggae and dutty rasta. Now them listening to Bob Marley and Dennis Brown like them nuh bias.

‘Sass, maybe it’s just my imagination, but it appears that you are (probably) guilty right now of displaying the curious Jamaican penchant for getting something other than four when two is added to two.

Amidst my harsh criticisms in the past, I have been careful on one or two occasions to emphasize that I do NOT hate dancehall. Also, and for the record, neither HL nor Reggaedoc have ever expressed hatred towards dancehall music in any of their posts that I have read here.

The issue is more -- much more -- than the rather simplistic view often advanced here about the “hate” people had towards “reggae and “dutty rasta” and how that hate was eventually transformed into a reluctant acceptance. The undeniable fact is that dancehall has its own set of serious problems that have LITTLE to do with middle class perceptions and more to do with the reality of its messages (“informa fe dead” and many others) and negative influences (to allude to one example, in many cases after the reimbursements have reached the intended recipients, you would be surprised to know how much is taken out for dancehall bling).

I often make reference to Ninja Man’s refusal several years ago to sing a certain hit when he was urged to do so by no less than a noted member of the reggae intelligentsia who is also a prominent educator. For all of his perceived shortcomings, the astute Ninjaman refused, citing that “anything whe too violent, me kinda refrain mi self from it.” This, to me, marks a turning point of sorts in at least one small way. (See http://music.myninjaplease.com/?p=2048 )

Now to mainstream reggae.
I am not sure if Jamaicans really realize the immense contribution that musicians and producers operating out of small studios in Kingston and St Andrew made to the world of music in the 1960s and 1970s!

Make no mistake about it: ska and rocksteady and reggae are GREAT art forms! This is why reggae, gradually impacted the world as it did back in the 1970s. Reggae’s emergence was truly revolutionary, for example in the way Jamaican drummers changed the accented beats and the way in which visionary producers pushed the bass line to the forefront. Reggae’s sound was more than the patented, first cousin to American popular music that dancehall is to hip hop!

As far as message is concerned, some of us, in our misled nationalism, confuse the relevant and powerful messages from 1970s reggae with the insane, socially problematic messages of a large portion of the dancehall movement in the 21st century! There is no question that much of dancehall’s messages and symbols have been perfectly in sync with Jamaica’s violent gun culture.

‘Sass, I know Bahamas-born, Jamaican record producer Tony Kelly, and while he has always been a truthful person, the problem is much more than “American strings” (I wish it was that simple). How, for example, can we expect better in our music when anonymous characters who go by the impressive-sounding name “record producer” and with very little musical background are the ones making decisions as far as sound is concerned? In previous posts I’ve highlighted the fact that an outstanding keyboard player will most like provide more creative stuff than a producer sitting before a computer. The same goes for other instruments.

Finally, I’m not saying that we “don’t have good singers or musicians as in the past”! On the contrary, in some cases we have BETTER singers and musicians than in the past! A look at female singers today, for example, will substantially bear this out.

Boss, I could easily write thousands of words on this subject, but I’ll simply end here.

[Historian]

Correction....

Correction: My comment about “Bahamas-born Jamaican producer” should have been directed at dancehall producer Dave Kelly. I have no idea where his brother Tony was born. (Both Dave and Tony are, of course, highly respected dancehall record producers.)

[Jawge]

See one here but is way back then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPac0H2kegA

This other one here was not used much in its time. Hugh Griffiths sang a nice one on it (mother Africa; in my collection of course) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSiNxOnXKBc .I think Don Drummond's death affected reggae somewhat.Heavenless and others were reworked to make countless tunes.

[Sir X]

Big tunnnnneeeee !

[Sir X]

Just to show what we have given the world....Ska Dub.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT9qu...eature=related

[HL]

Not only Jamaican music Assasin...

Remember this level of creativity...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCiC...eature=related

[Assasin]

Good talk sah. You see it.

[Assasin]

I could easily write a book too. You say you don't like dancehall but I have never seen you identify even one good dancehall song on here.

The fact is the lyrics had gotten bad in some dancehall tune but this is complex as it was a combination of what some dj and in Jamaica and mainly the US east coast wanted to play, with a influx of drug money and payola, not necessarily the art itself and some audience support.

The fact that there is always good clean lyrics and now that people who control the airwaves in clamp down you actually less of the "informer to dead" kind of lyrics. The problem with music in general is that anybody can make a beat because of technology but there need still need to be the pros putting the thing togather. Not all producers who are not musicians or engineer you can put in one category. Some have a good ear and feel for music.

The fact is that the music of the 70 and 80s had an impact but while we were living it we didn't know and most of the musicans and singers involved never knew and were even laughed at.

There is still that influence by Jamaican music, as even more than ever artist are going to Jamaica to produce, people are using Jamaican musicians and Children shows are full of Reggae and dancehall on mainstream tv.

I personally will go and listen to young artists, give them a chance but if they start the foolishness I will walk out and if we do that it will give them a chance to think. Buju Banton got his awakening on his European tour and others too and realise that there is a big segment of people out there to please.

On the subject of Ninja no artist is more complex and as you see it us the educated, the middle class, who egg the dirty lyrics on. One artist tell me he made a dirty version as some djs will only play that version, so a good song he will spoil with a few choice word.

AS for HL when we meet we listen to some good Jamaican music young and old and I must say I knew Eugene Grey but he really did turn me on big time to him. I have played stuff that I am working on I can remember one he liked very much and made some very encouraging comment(even if he was just saying something I wanted to hear).

I was listen some Old R&B and Reggae under the moonlight last night and i will leave you with two classical dancehall poem composition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM9Vb3JdAzs

and the other is Peter Metro "history of Jamaica"

[Assasin]

I could easily write a book too. You say you don't like dancehall but I have never seen you identify even one good dancehall song on here.

The fact is the lyrics had gotten bad in some dancehall tune but this is complex as it was a combination of what some dj and in Jamaica and mainly the US east coast wanted to play, with a influx of drug money and payola, not necessarily the art itself and some audience support.

The fact that there is always good clean lyrics and now that people who control the airwaves in clamp down you actually less of the "informer to dead" kind of lyrics. The problem with music in general is that anybody can make a beat because of technology but there need still need to be the pros putting the thing togather. Not all producers who are not musicians or engineer you can put in one category. Some have a good ear and feel for music.

The fact is that the music of the 70 and 80s had an impact but while we were living it we didn't know and most of the musicans and singers involved never knew and were even laughed at.

There is still that influence by Jamaican music, as even more than ever artist are going to Jamaica to produce, people are using Jamaican musicians and Children shows are full of Reggae and dancehall on mainstream tv.

I personally will go and listen to young artists, give them a chance but if they start the foolishness I will walk out and if we do that it will give them a chance to think. Buju Banton got his awakening on his European tour and others too and realise that there is a big segment of people out there to please.

On the subject of Ninja no artist is more complex and as you see it us the educated, the middle class, who egg the dirty lyrics on. One artist tell me he made a dirty version as some djs will only play that version, so a good song he will spoil with a few choice word.

AS for HL when we meet we listen to some good Jamaican music young and old and I must say I knew Eugene Grey but he really did turn me on big time to him. I have played stuff that I am working on I can remember one he liked very much and made some very encouraging comment(even if he was just saying something I wanted to hear).

I was listen some Old R&B and Reggae under the moonlight last night and i will leave you with two classical dancehall poem composition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM9Vb3JdAzs

and the other is Peter Metro "history of Jamaica"

[Baddaz]

historian, are you sure dave kelly was born in the bahamas... not saying you are wrong just that it is the first i am hearing that bit of info... i must go check my sources...