Bob Without Blackwell

[Historian]

Reading my post (in a thread below) just now, I realize that I came across a bit harsh. I did not mean to sound that way.

But seriously, Jawge, without Chris Blackwell’s production input, Bob Marley might have ended up being just another highly talented Jamaican singer/songwriter whose career went nowhere fast.

Just look at the career of, to cite just one example, Bob Andy. This man (Andy) is a world class songwriter, but did he become a world renowned superstar? The same could be said for many other highly talented Jamaicans. (In the case of Jimmy Cliff, Blackwell tried with him before he turned his attention to Bob Marley.)

The truth is that, prior to Blackwell’s remixing of tracks such as “Concrete Jungle,” in the process adding rock solos, clavinet sounds and so on, the previous production efforts on Bob’s albums lacked that “international flavor.”

Peter Tosh and his production team seemed to have realized the importance of this need for a European-sound connection, as can be surmised from the production work on recordings such as “Johnny B Goode,” which featured a memorable blues-rock solo by the American guitarist Donald Kinsey.

Check out, in addition, “Rastafari Is” (the live version). Clearly this went beyond the typical laid-back sound that marked Jamaican recordings and live acts. Pay attention to Kinsey’s brilliant extended blues-rock solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4e7kUgSQ00

To this day, this particular live performance remains at the very top of my list of Favorite Performances by a Jamaican Artist. In fact, this version of the band Word, Sound and Power is among the greatest/most talented aggregation of Jamaicans who ever played together!

My point is that the laid back “chaka chaka” rhythms of traditional reggae, while lovely and nice to dance to, had little that would have genuinely held the interest of the typical non-Jamaican (and to some extent, non-Caribbean) music listener.

[Assasin]

You made some good points. Yes you have to flavor the the thing for the market and if you listen Bob's later albums you will see they were trying hard to break in the US market with songs like "Coming in from the Cold", "Buffalo Soldier" and others. To me it didn't take much from reggae.

Without Blackwell Bob could have made it but he had to find a label who believed in him and knew the market and was willing to take that chance. Same thing Chris did for U2 as well. However that would be rewriting history as Chris did a great job for Reggae on a whole.

Jimmy did make a break through but there maybe other things going on why he left island, until today Jimmy is still a big name and to be in the Rock and Roll all of fame, I don't know if we can call him anything than a success.

[Islandman]

Without Blackwell Bob could have made it but he had to find a label who believed in him and knew the market and was willing to take that chance

Realistically though, the chances of that happening were slim. Hate Blackwell or love him but he was familiar with Jamaica and Jamaicans in a way that few people with that kind of money in the music industry were at the time. The Wailers had a different image from people like Millie Small and Desmond Dekker. Remember how Blackwell said people told him he would never see them again after he advanced them some money for Catch a Fire, because of how they looked.

[Assasin]

I agree with you still but Bob himself was a pusher and hustler(not in the bad sense) but he knocked on a few doors well including his fathers family who turned him down. Don't think he would stop knockng but as you say Blackwell was the perfect person to make it happen.

[Islandman]

Good point, who knows what would have happened. Well, good thing for all of us that it played out like it did.

[Baddaz]

none of us knows what would happen without blackwell... i am inclined to believe that bob & the wailers would still be good without blackwell track addditions... his messages were more powerful than any guitar or other instrument tracks... blackwell had the industry connections to get the music out, no doubt... and he played a part in the group being heard gobally...

[Willi]

Balckwell was needed to introduce the wirl to Reggae via LONDON.

Essentially all wirl beat music emerged via the channel called Inglan.

[Historian]

Thank You, Sir!

Balckwell was needed to introduce the wirl to Reggae via LONDON.

Essentially all wirl beat music emerged via the channel called Inglan.

Thank you, Willi! And might I add that you have hit the nail squarely on the head!

The fact is that Bob Marley wasn’t the only talented Jamaican turning out classic stuff, although admittedly, his message fitted perfectly with the conflicts and social upheaval in Africa and other parts of the world in the 1970s. But for us to underestimate the contribution and immense importance of Chris Blackwell and Island Records is to completely misunderstand the role and importance of careful production and marketing in making international stars!

I submit that without Chris Blackwell, Bob Marley would have gone the way of other talented, message-oriented Jamaican recording artists like Bob Andy (this guy Andy in particular is so immensely talented!), Jimmy Cliff, Peter Tosh, Bunny Wailer, etc.; that is nowhere really. Superstars don’t appear every day!

Island Records was vitally important to many artists from the Caribbean and elsewhere in the 1970s and 1980s.

Incidentally, how many of us realize that Jamaican businessman Chris Blackwell first started Island Records in Kingston, Jamaica (somewhere around the late 1950s or very early 1960s)?

[Sir X]

Nonsense !...Ska had made inroads into inglan without Blackwell Island Label ........In the Fall of 1965, Don Drummond's composition, "Man In The Street", enters the Top 10 in the UK. Trombonist Drummond is not only the Skatalites busiest composer, but the most prolific in all of Ska, with at least 200 tunes to his name by 1965. Later, in 1967, his adaptation of "The Guns of Navarone" netted Drummond another top 10 UK hit.
His peers and colleagues felt that Drummond was one of the top trombonists in the world.......

This was done with the label called studio one ,we need to understand our history and not believe the hype that Blackwell opened our music to the world.Blackwell saw a means to exploit that opnening with his label Island,it was already opened ! and he did a good job of it.

Ska was accepted by the MODS in england rebellious youth and skin heads.Blackwell had as much to do with it as Coxsone studio one.Obviously after selling Jamaican ska records out of his car, he saw a market ,the value, and churned out his first ska hit ,My Boy Lollipop with millie small in the early 60s on his Island Label.

Reggae/Rocksteady the new wave of 70s would be Blackwells future gig to exploit and guess who came along at the oppurtune time ? some young man with locks singing RASTA FI RUN DI WORL.

Jamaican music didnt start with Blackwell exploitation to reach mainstream, while Marley might have went the ordinary route without Blackwell , that music (Jamaican music ...ska, rocksteady,reggae, dub, DJmusic, Dancehall) was bound to be international , as it is now.

Other Labels forgein and local exploited other artiste in the 60s and 70s to top 100 hits in the U.K charts , and by extension the world, to say that Bob Marley/Island is soley responsible for reggae summit to me is myopic,simplistic and disingenious.Dennis Brown & Gregory Issacs are third world icons in their own right,you dont get the label the Crown prince for nothing or the Title Cool ruler.

Dis Music bigger than Blackwell and it has proven so , with the advent of dancehall , Dj music and Ska having a vibrant following all over the world, not just reggae.

Our genres live.

[Islandman]

Bob Andy is surely one of the most talented songwriters Jamaica has produced.

I always heard at he was very difficult to work with, i wonder how much that contributed to him not getting the break that he deserved.

[Historian]

Nonsense?

What can I say at this point? Clearly, X, you did not give much thought to the matter before hitting the keys! Isn’t it nice to be given an opportunity at getting back at your nemesis, Historian?

Anyway, I’ll simply say this: We are talking about Bob Marley, an international superstar who is, without question, the Third World’s first (and maybe only) superstar, not merely some rebellious singer/songwriter that rebellious youth in England gravitated to in the 1970s. We are talking about a man who was embraced by people ranging from the Aborigines of Australia to the ANC of South Africa to European middle class people to Hollywood stars in Beverly Hills.

And on the matter of incredible Third World performers, I could introduce you to the music of other geniuses, such as the late great Fela Kuti of Nigeria, an outstandingly talented musician! But what would be the point of me doing that?

Just know this: the world of music does not -- and never did -- revolve around Don Drummond, the Skatalites, or ska.

Also, X, when will you begin to realize that nothing that you type about music or Jamaican culture ever provides new information to me?

I won’t say anything more about your puzzling post above.

[Sir X]

Nemesis? ....stay focused with Bob without Blackwell, funny how you left out Blackwell in your retort.

Who can deny Bobs talent and his accomplishments,to say its all down to Blackwell is the debate,why focus on ska,i gave you a genre of Jamaican music to show our musics international reach is not reserved to reggae, Bob or Blackwell,to say it (jamaican music) reached its international zenith under BOB/Blackwell is even now debateable

I am sure you will address that in time.....snicker.

[Assasin]

As you say the character comes in play. The fact is Bob was a special star, he had star quality plus he was discipline, and gave it his all. In my opinion Bunny could have been a star after the blackheart man album but he never wanted to, and wasn't discipline to go to shows and listen to the big labels.

Bob was special. Historian I know Chris started his business in Kingston. His family was also close to Ian Flemming and crew. I have a friend who is their neighbour growing up. Yes he took it to the next level and he proved he is a good buisness man as he not only knew when to get in, but also when to get out. He sold Island Records at the right time. One can't belittle his contribution to our music as without him I doubt Jamaican music and even Bono would have been so big. He believed and invested and took many risks.
One have to be greatful regardless of all the names he has been called.

Regardless of the lyrics, the beat, the music it needed an extra push and Bob and Chris were the perfect team at the right time.

[Gamma]

Rasatafari Is on the captured live album is a masterclass

[Historian]

Excellent Summation!

Assasin, as in political and economic (for example, your views on what things need to be done about tourism in Jamaica), I tend to agree with you in the majority of cases as far as your musical views are concerned. This is definitely one such case. A good post, boss!

Thanks for this input and the other one above.