My proposal for Ministries in Jamaica.

[Peter R]

Be that as it may they probably have one of the most unique forms of govt. globally... one where the common man (and woman) have a direct say in what the government does which is not seen in many other countries.

I had asked Willi about this a few weeks back but did not pursue his response... there is no harm in looking at what other jurisdictions do and copy what is successful if it can be applied to local situations... unuh jus a write off wha de man a say widout looking deeper... we jus wan hug Westminster which IMO is farcical especially when you watch the Parliamentary channel, whether here in TT, what I saw in Canada and from what I have seen of the British parliament itself...pure oneupmanship discourse and nothing of substance with a few exceptions.

I didn't know about the universal suffrage thing but at the same time I think that does not detract from the system itself, that just limited who could participate and as you point out they have rectified it as of 40 years ago.

[Willi]

Federally yes, but Cantons are more powerful for many things and they started to allow in 159.

Since 1971, a lot has changed.

Switzerland had 4 women in the Cabinet last year, first female Prez (from Geneva) in 1998 and 3 more since. The one that just retired in dec, had 2 stints! Current Prez is a woman.

[Willi]

5,000 signatures and yuh can force a local referendum. 20,00 and you can force a federal referendum.

It is direct democracy and voter fatigue is a real issue. People haffi vote all 10 times a year, if them dont opt out.

[Exile]

Peter-R - you join calling posters and putting people in the 'unnu" group too...I made no comment on the whole thread except about WHEN women were allowed to vote - this I gleaned in a discussion recently with a friend who studied and lived there for years (also Norway and Spain) and alerted me to the fact...so 40 years is long way from 800 years (more 700)....
When we look for examples, and we can look anywhere, let us not just jump in and grab...maybe we don't need to look further than Barbados which is the oldest this side of the World...
Democracy is a farce.....as you confess "just limited who could participate".

[Exile]

ok.

[Jawge]

Careful because now you will have to cross out Europe completely. Longest period of peace since 1945.

Careful.

[Baddaz]

Be that as it may they probably have one of the most unique forms of govt. globally... one where the common man (and woman) have a direct say in what the government does which is not seen in many other countries.

peter r, you said it... now, have ever wondered why that switzerland model hasn't been copied by more countries in their quest for an ideal government model... just asking... secondly, from what i have learnt about the ease and frequency of elections (willi), do you think a jamaica in its present state could afford that swiss govt model... again, just asking...

unuh jus a write off wha de man a say widout looking deeper... we jus wan hug Westminster which IMO is farcical especially when you watch the Parliamentary channel, whether here in TT, what I saw in Canada and from what I have seen of the British parliament itself...pure oneupmanship discourse and nothing of substance with a few exceptions.

now peter r, as you can attest i've never and will never disrespect you... however, that 'unuh' insertion is unwarranted... it is instructive that if you or anyone take issue with the comments of a particular poster, you should address that particular poster... we've been at it for many years and differing views are the order of the day on this site... i thought you knew that...

i had to look over my postings in this thread to see if i had written off what the man (willi) said... i found nothing to support the 'unuh' which is 'all-inclusive'... in fact, my original response spoke to willi's second post in the thread, specifically;

Switzerland has only 7 cabinet ministers, is far wealthier and far older nearly 800 years of democratic traditions.

I guess dem fool fool.

my response was to question his comparison of the two countries based on each life stage and development... i didn't write off what he said...

how could you compare a developed and established country (800 years of democratic traditions, as you mentioned) with jamaica... its like apples to oranges...

in fact, in a subsequent thread i stated that there is nothing wrong with following successful models... however, i questioned whether jamaica in its infancy could move to a swiss model without chaos... armed with even more knowledge about frequency of elections, i have no doubt that jamaica could not afford that model, even if we wanted it...

still, mi respect fi yuh still up deh... mi just wud prefer if yuh drop de 'unuh' and talk tuh people straight... it come across as rude and disrespectful... mi just saying...

[Jawge]

Boss mi feel bad fi see dat original man like yuhself, PR and Willi haffi explain words to each other. Is when wi come to dis boss? Wi neva use to live so.

[Jawge]

Yuh want just a name? Not possible. I'm talking about the institution on a whole. Is she asked to speak or give her experience at any time to political science grad students? It's a shame; one of the sharpest political minds on Jakan politics is being ignored.

Bible ah fulfill: "In the abundance of water, fools thirst".

[Baddaz]

lol... a true... but dat too shall pass maas jawge... everyting soon come back tuh nawmal... i got it unda control... nuh watch nutten...

[Jawge]

arite boss , glad fi know. handle yuh bizniz.

[Willi]

Female suffrage trail male suffrage in most jurisdictions.

That in itself is not unusual.
Switzerland is federal and rural based. The Commune is what carries most responsibility for day to day life and where most of the tax money goes.

50 years ago if a lady married a man in the opposite valley (in some rual areas), IN THE SAME Canton, she would say goodbye to her old family and roots forever!

I too have lived in Spain, plus France and the UK for a short while, so I am familiar with European political systems. I work in a Scandinavian company, so I also know a bit about them too.

BTW, you ALSO said, "i think not", in your first response.

[Willi]

One clear benefit is that we wont have another light bulb like scandal where the cabinet Minsister can wash his hands and let the Jnr Minister alone tek the fall.

The buck will stop with the Super Minister, no more obfuscation. Recall that in the Westminster moggle, the PM is only the first among peers. Each Minister is like a mini president of his/her area and the buck stop there, direct fault or not. The Minister has to stay on top of the ball or lose the wicket!

[Peter R]

Exile and Baddaz,

If unuh (LOL) feel disrespected that i said "if unuh" in my post is disrespectful I withdraw the term and apologise if I offended. I can assure you that you both took my post the wrong way for my intention was not to disrespect, I will re-phrase... "it would appear that there are those who would write off a system without examining it closely for its relative merits.

Exile, you focused on ONE characteristic of the Swiss which as we know is not unique to them, just the timing of giving women the vote.

And Baddaz, you raised some good points, but my point really is not about COPYING the system, but examining it, or any other system, to see where we can borrow or copy aspects that might apply to us.

If PSM is to now embark on Republicanism, maybe it is also time to really create an independence that is truly our own.

Respect every time to you and Exile.

[Willi]

King J...

All is kriss.

We nuh haffi agree pon everything.

All I ask though, as an aside is that we address the point at hand and dont make up other discussion points.

I clearly stated that this is my model, benchmarked from others and adapted to the jakan situation. This was NOT any attack on PSM so Praetorians need to back down. LoL

This is a moggle goingg forward that would serve for all if agreed and implemented. I am simly opening up discussion on this front...so can we start all over again and address the point at hand.

I put this out there...agree, disagree, partially agree, would modify how, would disregard because, etc, etc, etc.

It is clear to me that Jamdung needs help and thinking far outside the box.