The Real Hard Talk :Chavez On Bbc

[Sir X]

You generalise too much ,socialist abandoning what ? They seem to be doing better than everyone in this recesssion.

You keep throwing stones at them ,yet talk out of two sides of your mouth , China is capitalist but a communist nation ,Brazil is a socialist but capitalist nation, 2 of these radical nations with radical systems that provide free education and health care ,who opened up their economies to prosper are given a bly and the two nations Cuba & Venez who share the same thing in common, the full force of us resentment is a joke ?

China still restricts its people and socialises it medical,educational and housing system,working its people in slave like conditions for economic sucess gets a bly ?

Brazil is freer than China , yet it subsidises health & education,socialism.

Opening up your economy does not mean an improvement in human rights but moreso economic rights , i.e trade , buy and sell goods.

You ever ask yourself what they would be like if left alone , like China & Brazil.

Let me warn you , Brazil is going to issue ,its not in my backyard policy to the USA in 20 years and dem a guh ave China as backative.

The world is changing and the USA better get on board.

[Reggaedoc]

X, you shouldn't confuse free education and free health with socialism/communism. If those were your only criteria, then by definition the USA is the largest socialist country in the world. Conversely, don't confuse China's, Brazil's, Vietnam's, free market economies with socialism. Never mind what they call themselves. Look at the practices. Costa Rica has probably a better literacy rate, and healthier population than Cuba, or Venezuela, yet they do not retrict the press, and personal freedoms. They have free and fair elections and a constitution that protects all her people. So don't give me this all or none crap. And they are fully in the information age with high speed internet. Cuba is the least connected country in the world, and guess who thay are depending on to get them connected?. The Venezuelans. Chavez promised to lay cables for internet connectivity for the last decade, and not even one inch of cable has been placed, leaving Cuba in ths dark age. I understand that we feel good when someone sticks a finger in the big bad America's eye. We all harbour small island cauvenism, but if you take a break from the emotional thinking and think logically, you have to admit that it is capitalist ideas in general and Americal ideas in particular that have driven the global economy, and human development for the last 200 years. Socialism/Leninism never even lasted 100 years before even its most ardent practitioners abondoned it, except of course you are a thug, or fool like the Castro's or Chavez.

[Sir X]

Even the socialists are abondoning that failed ideology....whom do you speak of ?....It has nothing to do with sticking it to the USA , but moreso the pride in trying to do for oneself,something Jamaica has not yet learned to do,for the past 30 years we have been glued to the IMF , either directly or indirectly through consultation.

The sh*tstem are full of hypocrytes ,so to hear you tear apart Cuba & Venez for trying to find its own solution to its own problems while you can give nations like China a bly , is nothing less than hypocrysy.

You act as if the US sanctions does not have an affect on Venez & Cubas economic predicament, a free and independent Jamaica would fold in a sec under such sanctions.

What was China like before trade with the US , same with Vietnam and they repress thier nationals no less or more than Cuba !

Brazil chooses to be a democratic socialist country , with freedom of expression , much like venezuela.

Stop being the hypocryte and admit , they are better off than most of us are , health, education and in some cases economically ,They have a clue an idea on how to deal with thier issue , we still dont have a clue with no economic US sanctions.

[Reggaedoc]

X, by any other name Brazil is a capitalist country full stop. Yes, where was China before trade with the US?. Well, it was a nonentity, with a nonperforming economy. So don't you think Cuba and Chavez should learn something from that. India was in a similar position as China also. Cuba has had over 50 years to learn. Their experiment has failed, and this is the example Chavez is following?. Does that make common sense?.nIt makes sense to the fat cats like the Castro brothers, and the military hierarchy who become richer and richer everyday while the people suffer. I hope Portia acts on the basis of intelligence, rather than on the basis of emotion, and not do us in like Manley, with the help of Seaga did to us in the late 70s.

[Sir X]

Isnt that hypocritical the experiment failed because they Cuba & Venezuala have run counter to US economic interest i,e trade on us terms , have failed is that it ?

The people are suffering as you claim from not having the economic benefits of trade with the US , so they have failed ?So human rights means nothing to you its a farce?

The Cubans and Venez will argue its means that much to them and go to hell with your trade as long as they can provide thier standard of education ,health and housing to their nationals.

I hope the US stops its economic war against Cuba & Venez so they can achieve thier utmost in regards with trade to provide for its people with thier unique kind of governance.

Portia/PNP or JLP/Whoeverness dont have a clue , except to listen to the IMF on how to pimp its future out another 100 years.

Isnt it odd a vibrant democracy like Jamaica has to seek favourable loans from a socialist country like Venez which incidentally is falling apart.

[Reggaedoc]

What are you talkin about X?. Can you compare the schools, hospitals, or houses of the people of Cuba with that those of Costa Rica. And don't even mention respect for freedom of expression, travel, information, worship etc. Come on man, get real.

[Sir X]

You really gone off on a tangent trying to justify a point ,I cannot compare cuban houses to those in the USA ? can you export 20,000 MDS from the USA to the third world ?

Deal with the hypocrysy ? The communist nations who the USA chooses to trade with who control its people in slave labour camps,have no rights , to provide goods for the US economy and build itself into an economic power ,Is that what you call capitalist ? the economic warfare against Cuba and Venez , esp Venez who give its people the freedom to vote.

Tell me about Vietnam ?

Socialism is not structured in a rigid way for any nation, but each nation adapts it for its own economic benefit.BTW we agree ,the hypocrytes the USA & Europe and more socialist than Cuba ,Brazil & China put together, they subsidized both rich and poor for political gain and control the masses through a media propoganda of freedom,diluted or blinded by our consumerism(freedomn to buy ).


Thanks for making my point on the hypocrysy of it all.(Sh@tstems)

Gdnight.

[Reggaedoc]

No X. I used Costa Rica as a comparison, for obvious reasons. They are similar in history, population size etc, the only difference is one chose a communist/socialist path which has resulted in backwardness and economic devastation, and one chose a capitalist path which has resulted in upliftment and economic growth, while allowing people the freedoms that all human beings deserve. You can spin it any way you want, facts are facts.

[Sir X]

Yeah reggae doc ,leave out the fact that one has an economic war with the greatest economic power in the world for 50 years ,tell me how it contributed to its backwardness , that it can export MDs, tell Costa Rica , to do that.

You are conviently ignoring a truth .So be it.

[Reggaedoc]

Oh please X, enough of this export MD from Cuba crap. Look, the doctors trained in Cuba are second or third rate at best. Nothing like the Cuban doctors before the revolution. The Cuban reputation of producing good doctors is based on their prerevolutionary, preSoviet-influenced standard when they produced the likes of the great Dr. Juaquin Albarrans y Dominguez etc. The MD products since the revolution are basically men and women trained in community medicine, geared at administering vacinations, delivering babies, and suturing minor lacerations. This is what nurse practitioners, midwives, and some RNs do in most developed countries, and some relatively advanced developing countries. This is ok for most backward third world countries, but for a country like ours which is trying to achieve 1st world status this is not sufficient. The reason why they can send so many abroad is because they are trained en mass without serious attention to world standard. Afteral a poor third world country will take anyone they can get. So be careful who you present that argument to. How can you be well trained in medicine when you are not privy to the latest journals, techniques, textbooks, and visiting professors from the cradle of modern medicine and pharmaceutics, the USA. It doesn't make even common sense X. Not even the Russians, or Chinese believed that during the prime of communism. This does not mean that these doctors don't have the potential, but until they have the right exposure, that potential can never be realized.

[Don1]

Incorrect.

Cuba has excellent doctors and a world rated health care system. That is one of their greatest achievements in the revolutionary period and in the face of western sanctions. The health care outcomes in Cuba are nothing short of extraordinary... equal or superior to the US in rates of chronic diseases, life expectancy etc ...for one twentieth of the spend per capita

Third party validation of this fact is established by their health care tourism sector which they give priority to... tens of thousands of foreigners...Europeans, South & Central Americans, Caribbean people and even US residents use those facilities....

The fact of US residents going to Cuba for quality, affordable care (through 3rd countries)is a fact I'm personally aware of.... and a fact ignored by the so called "mainstream" press more interested in propagating self serving fantasy. There is much to criticise in Cuba but...their health care system is definitely not on the radar for that.

Watch Sicko... not the person...the documentary

[Reggaedoc]

Easy Don. That documentary is pure propaganda. I have visited many hospitals that serve the Cuban people and they are mostly filthy hell holes which lack basic stuff. The so- called documentary featured one hospital that serves expats in an effort to try and embarass the USA. Don't fall for the hype. I have some photos that I have taken in Cuban hospitals that would make you cringe.

[Bricktop]

Tek it easy pon the youtubers Reggaedoc...tek it easy...

[Don1]

I've no doubt that Cuba is challenged for resources...and I don't depend on movies for info...nor particularly the "mainstream" press

The statistics are not hype...The incontrovertible fact is that the outcomes in their system are extraordinary...verified by the UN, WHO etc Given the limited spend and sanctions... the achievement is even more remarkable... which was one of the points that film made

I can't subscribe to either right wing or left wing hype or propaganda...just gimme the data...and as far as their health system is concerned the data is in their favour

btw...not sayin that you are so subscribing to hype/propaganda

Respek

[Bricktop]

and I don't depend on movies for info...

Watch Sicko... not the person...the documentary

Camedy show to rhattid...