Some time ago there was a discussion about...

[Sir X]

that doesnt exclude that he is trying to diversify his economy into agriculture and comodities,he is tying up his economy with brazil and china as they rise so will his more so s america,argentinia and uraquay is owned by venezuelan loans the fastest growing economies in s.america growing at 8% but it venezuela has a bond rating less than thiers,now hear this ,the next two to four years chavez or no chavez when the world start coming out of a recession ,nothing will stop venezueala for another 15years.

memba me tell yuh.

[Reggaedoc]

X, a part of being a good leader is to know how to play your cards for the long-term good of your people, not just for your narrow political ideology or ego. Look at the Castro thugs in Cuba, after over 50 years of destroying the lives of the Cuban people and basically turning them into beggars and prostitutes, due to their oversized egos, incompetence and Stalinist policies, in the longrun it is the same system that they decried for 50 years that will save them. Does that make sense. The Chinese the same. It might sound like fawt, but reality is reality. Forget our small country chauvenism for a minute. Afteral, during the Manley era, Trinidad and Barbados achieved much more than us, for their people, and I should remind you that they to had diplomatic relations with Cuba, without angering their most important trading partner and destroying their economies. We have never recovered. You can argue that Seaga played his part, and I would agree, but if you hand a power hungry scoundrel like Seaga the opportunity to present Jamaica's head on a platter, being a politician, what else should you have expected him to do in the height of the cold war. That is where political maturity should have trimphed over ego and the reading of sophmoric Leninist literature. Just ask T. Monroe and DK Dunkan. They are the biggest hustlers in Jamaica today. What happened to their Leninist ideals that were so good for the Jamaican people. Chavez is no different. He lacks political maturity. He is a circus clown.

[Sir X]

I agree that he lacked it in the begining but i believe he has put in process the tools to grow up,he is allowed room for error is he not.

you and i know time is on his side,meeting 3 times a year with brazilian technocrats must count for something,they knew how to tell the imf to go screw themselves.

[Sir X]

To put it bluntly to you,brazil by extension s america excluding colombia will not see socialist venezueala fail and definetly not stand by if the us intervenes militarily.

Time is on socialist venezueala side,funny how the us ignores socialist brazil instead we hearthe label left wing...lol...to diminish any confrontation and of course not dimiminsh the billions in trade.

venezuela isnt the only socialist nation in s america thier are others doing damm good that the us opportunely brands left wing

[TDowl]

Those symbolism are nonsense, unless they are use for cleaning up the neighborhoods, and create hostilities.

[Reggaedoc]

Yes X, but it is not what you do that matters sometimes, but how you go about doing it. Like I said, Trinidad and Barbados, under Williams, and Barrow respectively, did the same things for the welfare of their population, and for diplomacy with Cuba that Manley did, but they went about it in a different manner, thus the negative long-term effects are different. Brazil is doing for its poor, and has achieved more for its poor than Chavez has in Venezuela, but they have gone about business in a calm purposeful manner with less acromony than the Venezuelan clown, so the reaction by key trading partners is different. When you have your hand in a lion's mouth sometimes you have to take your time in taking it out. We are not a super power, so we can't tell certain countries to go screw themselves, then turn around with cap in hand, on knees begging for aid, or for their tourists to come to our shores. That is not how it works in the real world. That is where Manley and and the big-mouthed firebrands including DK, T. Monroe etc screwed us in the 80s. We are still paying the price. Now they are all capitalist hustlers. The Jamaican people won't be tricked like that again.

[Reggaedoc]

You see it. Nuff broom now but if KSAC don't clean around their market stalls in Coronation or Chiggerfoot markets, these areas never get cleaned. Only in Jamaica. First year status by 2030. Well we have all of 18 more years. I think that is a few decades too optimistic.

[Sir X]

Boss we agree on most issues in regards to Chavez except I believe he is maturing ,you dont to the point where you believe its costing his people alot .I dont and it seems the venezuealean electorate agree with me.

I expect the retort , brain washed and rights dwindled away,blah.blah.It is still a democracy that rejected recently Chavez proposal of giving him unquestionable power.

[Don1]

X, a part of being a good leader is to know how to play your cards for the long-term good of your people, not just for your narrow political ideology or ego. Look at the Castro thugs in Cuba, after over 50 years of destroying the lives of the Cuban people and basically turning them into beggars and prostitutes, due to their oversized egos, incompetence and Stalinist policies, in the longrun it is the same system that they decried for 50 years that will save them. Does that make sense. The Chinese the same. It might sound like fawt, but reality is reality. Forget our small country chauvenism for a minute. Afteral, during the Manley era, Trinidad and Barbados achieved much more than us, for their people, and I should remind you that they to had diplomatic relations with Cuba, without angering their most important trading partner and destroying their economies. We have never recovered. You can argue that Seaga played his part, and I would agree, but if you hand a power hungry scoundrel like Seaga the opportunity to present Jamaica's head on a platter, being a politician, what else should you have expected him to do in the height of the cold war. That is where political maturity should have trimphed over ego and the reading of sophmoric Leninist literature. Just ask T. Monroe and DK Dunkan. They are the biggest hustlers in Jamaica today. What happened to their Leninist ideals that were so good for the Jamaican people. Chavez is no different. He lacks political maturity. He is a circus clown.

not too much to argue with here

[Sir X]

Chavez gave money to Argentina, Ecuador, and Bolivia. Ecuador then threw the representatives of the World Bank out of the country, and Bolivia let its loan agreement with the IMF expire. Argentina got $5.1 billion from Venezuela, funding that rescued it from the ravages of the IMF that had destroyed its economy. With the money, Argentina was able to pay off its debt to the IMF.

Chavez has not given away this money. It has to be paid back, but only little by little at a reasonable interest rate that the countries can afford. That is one of the reasons why the financial powers-that-be want to get Chavez: because he hit them where it really hurts, to the point that the World Bank now is in a crisis; it’s downsizing, and the IMF doesn’t know what it’s going to do because nobody wants its loans. This has been absolutely wonderful because it has struck a big blow against this international extortion that these U.S.-controlled organizations are practising.

[Author’s Note: The worth of loans given by the IMF fell to $20 billion in 2008 from almost $100 billion in 2004. According to the U.S. magazine ‘In These Times’, “The IMF has lost almost all influence in Latin America, with lending there plummeting to a paltry $50 million, less than 1% of its global loan portfolio. As recently as 2005, the region had accounted for 80% of its outstanding loans.”]

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/maria_paez_intvw.htm

[Willi]

In your haste to malign, you got a few facts wrong. Nothing about '60s, nor anything about being outdated not used again, etc:

http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/s...ad.php?t=45885

ALL I said was"That was only in 1972."...and as far as I know, it was not a PNP symbol per se, but a temportary gambit used to signify sweeping the old, stale govt out of power. Nearly everybody I knew then was PNP (Fudge Aris included, though some of unno a pronounce the man name as ARIES, LoL), so I am quite aware of the broom symbology, as all my family members referred to it and mimicked the action.

I am sure that labourites would have no real objection to using it when they win elections. It is more about the sweeping/cleansing action than anything.

Now you can go back to souring your milk. LoL

[Exile]

Wait..YOU talking to me???

[Willi]

Just the facts man!

[Exile]

Willi is the New Year...after you tell me to have a nice life and all of that? Anyways.....

[Willi]

Stick to the facts when yuh refer to me. Dont overreach.

You dont want a nice life?

You want me to wish you ill?