Commonwealth electoral provision is an Ass & a Shackle..

[ReggaeMike]

Is you bring up colour!!!!!

I've already told you the reason for that. I've heard Mozambique has been brought up in discussion in the past by persons who strongly implied there was something wrong with Mozambicans because they were in Africa and that these persons were black Jamaicans. If you chose not to read my reasoning and my apology if that was not your intent, then fine.

Coordinated nuh mean nutten. Namibia coordinate too.

Poor you. Yu know anything about Namibia? Please don't me that Namibia was a Portuguese colony too.

[Willi]

I had a former colleague born there. It was GERMAN. I know a bit more than you think.

Yuh apologise and then bring up colour AGAIN. What, you dont want me to respond? Fine...have at it.

I dont care about your previous discussion and i think it is the heights of disrespect for you to be projected other peoples stances upon me. Mi nat even know dem deh people. Maybe is a projection of your issues?

[Gamma]

So you are saying you know people who would spend at least J$100,000 in one go to visit a country and that they NEED to find a job? If they need a job, where did they get all that money from in the first place? stop it please! you don't know people's circumstances and who are you to say they don't NEED a job?! i know of many a folk who have done that in Jamaica and elsewhere in fact I had one such call about 2 weeks ago from a UK citizen albeit not to visit jamaica but another commonwealth country

we're either discussing at cross purposes or you are being disingenuous. the undisputed fact is that a UK citizen does not need a tourist visa to visit jamaica ... just a passport.

[ReggaeMike]

Yuh keep moving the goalpost.

If you get that impression it is only because I've been trying my hardest to provide you both with information to dispel the apparent notion that tourist visa = work visa. But go ahead and believe that. I note though that despite all the info I've provided not one of the questions I've asked regarding counter examples has been answered.

All yuh need fi get the residency is a convenient marriage!

And? That applies to all countries. Any of us could get residency in Canada or the UK through marriage. They just require that it be legal and check to make sure it isn't a sham which would be grounds for permanent residency to be denied (the same thing would apply in Jamaica by the way, however the fact that someone could probably bribe their way more easily in Jamaica than in Canada or Britain is not an indication of Britain needing to become looser but for Jamaica to begin observing its own laws).

Look how many Russians used to do it to avoid future extradition.

Russians? Russia doesn't extradite its citizens (it's a part of their constitution) so they wouldn't need to do it to avoid extradition if that is what they were fearing.

Ah dat mi a talk bout. Yubh not looking at every angle.

I'm moving the goalposts and you are saying "Ah dat mi a talk about" when you NEVER mentioned marriage before? Who you think I am? Ms. Cleo? I don't read minds. So if you thought about marriage as a route why didn't you say so from the get go?

Yuh and Gamma ah talk bout tourist visa and you ah try conflate me and my argument inna dat deh argument.

I guess when you were telling Gamma "shhh" in his response to tourist visa is was because you saw the error in his argument and were telling him such right? Yeah......I know what that meant.

In any case, Gamma is correct. Once yuh have free access, you can poke around and change yuh status. With the visa wall, dollyhouse mash up!

Oh, so I tried to "conflate" you and your argument into Gamma's argument even though you showed tacit agreement with Gamma and here you are reaffirming that agreement with Gamma's stance here....yeah, real cute.

I love what you guys consider free access though. An expensive airplane ticket.

By the way I'm sure Britain stopped allowing that whole "change of status" move whilst remaining in Britain some time before they stopped allowing Jamaican tourists to come without visas. My recollection if it isn't faulty is that for changes in status persons were usually required to go home and apply or wait upon the application unless it was some kind of emergency (like asylum).

[ReggaeMike]

I had a former colleague born there. It was GERMAN. I know a bit more than you think.

Wooiiiieeee! So tell me now, when did you stop paying attention to the world? 1915 right?

Or maybe your former colleague just forgot about the 45 years when Namibia was a part of the British Empire following it's conquest in World War I and near annexation as a Mandate? Did he also forget that Tanzania (well the mainland) was in a similar situation as a Mandate after World War I?

Yuh apologise and then bring up colour AGAIN. What, you dont want me to respond? Fine...have at it.

I apologized before you brought up the topic of white people, to which I responded. So, no I wasn't bringing up colour again. You were. Please keep the times straight.

I dont care about your previous discussion and i think it is the heights of disrespect for you to be projected other peoples stances upon me.

So if you bring up a very similar argument, what am I supposed to expect? I already apologized for the mistake of doing so, but if that's not enough for you then okay.

Mi nat even know dem deh people. Maybe is a projection of your issues?

Funny that you would think that when I was querying what's wrong with Mozambicans in defence of them. But I suppose you see what want to see and ignore what you want to ignore (including the fact that I immediately apologized for lumping your argument into the same pot as others who I've met who have used the same or a very similar argument with very disturbing undertones).

[ReggaeMike]

Yuh ah argue offa theory.

I know the practical. I have lived it over here. I have relatives in the UK Guvvament.

Hmm...so what is that in response to in particular? The footballers subdiscussion? Getting a job? Did you live in the UK and get a job by flying there in absolute need of a job or because you had an opportunity and wanted a better job? Or is this in response to the stats on Jamaicans in Britain and Britons in Jamaica?

[Willi]

See my post above ...IS you bring up colour fuss and keep bringing it up time and again.

It is a RIDICULOUS argument in this context of CITIZENSHIP.

Stop type so much and start thinking clearly. Yuh thinking too deeply and are way off track here.

[ReggaeMike]

stop it please! you don't know people's circumstances and who are you to say they don't NEED a job?!

So since you know the circumstances I'm sure you can properly answer the question and tell me if they needed a job, or if they wanted a job. I'm not asking you for names or dates or addresses. Just say whether or not they even had a job to start with and simply went to find a better job (which is what I suspect to be the case but for which all answers have been avoided) or if being unemployed and presumably in need of money they spent money on airfare to fly to another country just to look for a job.

i know of many a folk who have done that in Jamaica and elsewhere in fact I had one such call about 2 weeks ago from a UK citizen albeit not to visit jamaica but another commonwealth country

So this UK citizen was in need of a job and is going to shell out loads of money to visit another country just to look for one?

we're either discussing at cross purposes or you are being disingenuous. the undisputed fact is that a UK citizen does not need a tourist visa to visit jamaica ... just a passport.

I'm not discussing at cross purposes, nor am I being disingenuous. You keep retreating to this fact about UK citizens not needing tourist visas and Jamaican citizens do without providing one iota of evidence that any UK tourist has ever come here and then stayed 1 year and then stood for election or voted (which can be the only relevant reason behind discussing tourist visas in connection with the constitutional requirement of being ordinarily resident for 1 year in order to be eligible to vote or stand for election).

[ReggaeMike]

See my post above ...IS you bring up colour fuss and keep bringing it up time and again.

It is a RIDICULOUS argument in this context of CITIZENSHIP.

Stop type so much and start thinking clearly. Yuh thinking too deeply and are way off track here.

"Way off track". So says one of the posters who seems to agree that tourists can vote apparently (because that is the logical extension of Gamma's argument) or that Namibia was never British an any point in time......


The only reason I would stop typing so much is if you or Gamma would make it plain that you aren't reading the facts I've presented. I only type so much because I'm bringing in facts to back up my argument. Up to now neither of you have has presented anything to back up what you say other than that Jamaicans need tourist visas and Britons don't (for Gamma) or that Mozambicans aren't anglicized (I've noticed no response though to my contention that Mozambicans who would come to Jamaica could not get by on Portuguese alone...).

[Willi]

I have lived in 6 countries, so yes I do know the differences between visas and permits. I prob had waaay more than you in my time.

I even had a short term work visa in Canada with a visitors visa and Student Auth. all at the same time.

I said to avoid extradition BACK TO RUSSIA. Thought that would have been obvious....

Nope, its to tell you that you are barking up the wrong tree. Shh in that context means nuh boddah Gamma, him naaahh get it.

Go read all my posts and come again. It seems like yuh memory is short term, bad bad.

You a try lecture to people who live it. Too funny!

[Willi]

Who said tourists could vote?? Which tourist is ordinarily resident for one year???

Is who yuh think yuh a lecture?

MI LIVE DIS THING. so wheel and come again.

[Willi]

Dont think deeply, think clearly...big difference.

[ReggaeMike]

I have lived in 6 countries, so yes I do know the differences between visas and permits. I prob had waaay more than you in my time.

So why are you acting like you don't know the difference?

Surely you can agree that it is entirely possible to get a work permit for a country for which one has never had a tourist visa, no? And therefore tourist visas are irrelevant in a discussion on work permits.

I even had a short term work visa in Canada with a visitors visa and Student Auth. all at the same time.

Student visa, visitor visa =/= work permit.

I said to avoid extradition BACK TO RUSSIA. Thought that would have been obvious....

You did not say avoid extradition "back to Russia". You just said it. So now you are berating me, for your assumptions which you did not voice, nor write and which were not clear, nor obvious in your writing but when I make an assumption based off your argument being nearly identical to one I've seen persons make with a discriminatory context you berate me, even after I apologize? Nice.

For the record, this is what you what you wrote. Please note you did not reference who Russians were marrying, which country they were marrying in or which state they were trying to avoid extradition to:

All yuh need fi get the residency is a convenient marriage! Look how many Russians used to do it to avoid future extradition.

Ah dat mi a talk bout. Yubh not looking at every angle.

Nope, its to tell you that you are barking up the wrong tree. Shh in that context means nuh boddah Gamma, him naaahh get it.

Uhuh...sure....

Go read all my posts and come again. It seems like yuh memory is short term, bad bad.

You a try lecture to people who live it. Too funny!

For someone who has lived it you seem remarkably uninformed about it.

So did you fly to countries without a job in order to just look for a job? Or did you fly to countries whilst already having a job and then came across opportunities there as part of the visit?

And since you apparently lived it as you claim, I guess you must have voted in at least one of these 6 countries other than Jamaica yes? Or did you not get permanent residency?

Just because you've been to and lived in six countries doesn't mean you've participated in elections in any of them, nor does it mean you would have qualified as being ordinarily resident.

[ReggaeMike]

Dont think deeply, think clearly...big difference.

My advice to you: think.

Clearly tourists cannot vote right? Or do you have proof otherwise? I mean you do agree with Gamma about the tourist visas issue and you say you know the difference between work permits and visas but everyone seems to have avoided my point on it which is that it entirely possible to get a work permit without having ever applied for a tourist visa or visiting the country in question. What has also been avoided is whether or not these persons who Gamma claims have gone to visit countries and found jobs actually needed or a job (if they need a job they wouldn't have one currently right?) or it they wanted a (better) job.

[ReggaeMike]

Who said tourists could vote?? Which tourist is ordinarily resident for one year???

Is who yuh think yuh a lecture?

MI LIVE DIS THING. so wheel and come again.

Ah finally. So seeing as how no tourist is ordinarily resident for 1 year (which is what I've been saying) how is it that you can tell Gamma "shhh" because I apparently don't understand how this works and can agree with Gamma on his tourist visa argument which as I've consistently maintained is completely and totally irrelevant to a discussion on Commonwealth citizens being given the right to vote and stand for election?