Serious question

[Willi]

I dont think TnT, Barbados and the other English Island have a patois that is so distinct from English that they would class it as another language.

PRico and Dom rep speak Spanish, even if with their own twist.

Only Haiti and Jamaica seems to be so different.

One thing both countries have in common is sub-standard levels of education among the broad base of people. Could these creoles have developed BECAUSE of insufficient attention to broad based education over the last say 100-300 years?

One think I think we can all agree on ...Jamaican patois is MOSTLY English and Haitian Creole is mostly French!

[Islandman]

Interesting question.

St Lucia and Dominica have a French based Creole as well. Given that they are officially English speaking it would be interesting to know how they have dealt with it.

I wonder if the fact that thiers is so totally different from English they have no choice but to learn standard English, while we kind of get by with ours and take it less seriously.

[Willi]

Could well be.

I left out St Lucia and the Vinchis for that reason, their French base is too strong.

In any case, I think this is where the academics should be researching and not the fluffy, self-serving stuff they constantly serve up.

Language and history are intricately entangled.

[Hortical]

St Lucians for the most part can understand Haitian creole. Haitian creole is primarily derived from several West African languages and is uniquely different from French. Much like Mandarin and Cantonese might be related historically, but they are separate and distinct languages. Cantonese speakers can understand maybe less than 5% of Mandarin.

[Willi]

What??

Mandarin and Cantonese is the "same". They use the same writing (Chinese Characters). So do the Japs, but they cant understand each other written.

My Cantonese colleague told me the fuss time she go Beijing she could not talk with anyone, but use pen and paper to get around as the written is the same. She is fluent in both now and gave me examples of saying the same thing in either language. Cantonese sounds broad and raw-chaw. Manadarin sounds more pleasing to my ears and she agreed!

[Hortical]

Well, my Cantonese colleague can not read a word of Mandarin. When I was in China sometime ago, his communication skills with people were just as bad as mine!

[Willi]

Well we get 2 different story den. I also heard it confirmed from other people that they can use writing to communicate between them...providing of course that both parties are literate! LoL

[Hortical]

Oh, there is one important point I missed. He is not literate in Cantonese, learned it from his parents.

[Gamma]

st lucia, dominica and louisiana creole are very similar, what is interesting to me is how they developed those similarities. this suggests that it is not as random as all that.

as for barbodos ... mi really have a hard time understanding dem so dat mi not even know if is in fact english dem speaking.

jamaican patois is identical to gullah, again they developed discretely and separate from each other.

One thing both countries have in common is sub-standard levels of education among the broad base of people. Could these creoles have developed BECAUSE of insufficient attention to broad based education over the last say 100-300 years? what are you suggesting here willi?

[Willi]

I am suggesting that if we had better education across the board, we may not have developed such a widely divergent ENGLISH based patois.

It is something I am positing and throwing out there for discussion.

Dont know gulluh. Who speaks that? If its identical, then we can understand those people easily, no?

Your point about those frenchy territories is interesting and worth investigating. Get some UWI people pon di case nuh?

[Gamma]

i have read gullah and it is so. in fact, the uncle remus' and brer rabbit stories are from gullah (interestingly brer rabbit is brer anansi as the stories are VERY similar). gullah are some islands off the coast of the carolinas. there was a show on PBS entitled gulla gullah.

see the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullah

[MdmeX]

i have read gullah and it is so. in fact, the uncle remus' and brer rabbit stories are from gullah (interestingly brer rabbit is brer anansi as the stories are VERY similar). gullah are some islands off the coast of the carolinas. there was a show on PBS entitled gulla gullah.

see the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullah

it is said that not so long ago ago there was a set of descendants from African slaves in South Carolina, who speak gullah.

[Gamma]

to this day ... list of some famous people with gullah roots ....

Famous African Americans with Gullah roots

• Robert Sengstacke Abbott
• Jim Brown
• Chubby Checker
• Joe Frazier
• James Jamerson
• Jazzy Jay
• Greg Jones
• Michelle Obama[2]
• Clarence Thomas[3]
• James Brown
• Roddy White
• Dan Driessen
• Chris Rock
• Big Boi

[Islandman]

I have a sistren from S. Carolina who is of Gullah descent. She did a presentation on the language and culture a few years ago during Black history month and I was amazed at the similarities.

The language developed on the barrier islands of the Carolinas which was somewhat isolated from the mainland for a long time, that probably contributed to its preservation.

For example they would say "oona" where we say "unoo" and "buckra" to refer to white people in authority similar to how old time Caribbean people would say "backra". It kinda sound more like an older version of Jamaican patois. Its not just the words they use but the language structure is very similar.

Take a look at a chapter in the Gullah Bible:

http://www.gullahbible.com/Conc/42MRKGUL.htm#C1


Its also worth noting that my sistren said that when she was growing up she was told that Gullah people were not very smart because of how they spoke so for years she saw it as a negative thing. There have been efforts to preserve the culture in recent decades though.

[Peter R]

The "pidgin" spoken in the Cameroons has many similarities to JA patois.