Unnu 'ear whe Oleness sey? Dawg nyam yu suppa.....

[Willi]

We have no identity problem though. We have an English communications problem and its all over.

Portia and Montague dropping the "H" like its a hot potato, shows that even in BOTH party heirachies we have a problem. These people pretend to represent Jamaica? Cant we do better?

[Mosiah]

I was just speaking to two Ugandans a while ago. They spoke to me in perfect English, halting English, however, very much like how Jamaicans would speak it. And from time to time, they would switch to their native tongue, which to my ear sounded very fluent.

I'm wondering why we can't accept the fact that English is not our first language and that is why many of us speak it as if it indeed is our second language. I wonder if you understand what I am saying. Most of us do not just speak English. We have to think about the words, their spelling, their pronunciation, the grammar, the sentence structures. It doesn't just roll off our tongues! We sound just like the Ugandans who have no problem speaking two languages very well.

Are those Ugandans smart persons, smart enough to learn another language? What about the South Africans I met last year speaking 5 or 6 languages, were they geniuses?!? We act as if our people are unable to master English just because they also speak patois!

I don't buy that.

[Bricktop]

We act as if our people are unable to master English just because they also speak patois!

I don't buy that.

I don't care what you buy. The proof is in the pudding. The majority of Jamaicans have been unable to master English...

[Willi]

On the contrary,

YOU MAKE MY POINT! If other nations can do it, why cant we.

Also, these other languages that Africans speak do NOT share the same roots as English!! Patois is a DIALECT of English and therefore very close. So close that it causes confusion. This is why Catalan people have problems to switch between Castellano and Catalan!

As an aside, you yourself said above that SOME of us have a problem. How comes only some? What is the difference between those who do and those who DONT have a problem. What makes us different? How ccan that be duplicated for (the good) of all? Why would those of us WITHOUT the problem not want all the rest to join us in our perfect bi-lingualism? Dont we want to spread the joy?

What I dont buy is the near paranoid defense of patois. Patois does not need to be defended. It can (almost) never be killed. It is ours and it is us and as such will flourish even if not nurtureed as some suggest. The only real threat I see is to let the academics have control of it and then like many other things, its corner would be dark going forward. Patois is alive and doing well. Grieve for English, grieve for our people's economic future!

[Exile]

Will - the experts say Jamaican patois is NOT a dialect of English.

[Mosiah]

So we different from anybody else? A suh wi dunce?

[Mosiah]

Really?

[Willi]

Academics, nuh true? LoL

Look man, dem very closely related, nuh matta di definition. Ah Jawges mi guh and we had nuff American priests there then. In one month they are up to speed and 3 months dem relatively fluent. When Chinese/Latins/Haitians etc come, it takes them far longer to get to the same level of Patois fluency. We had German/Austrian teachers, as well as Indian ones. They never really got over the hump in Patois during their say 3-5 year stint.

Native anglophones have a leg up in Patois, just as Latinos could learn Catalan quickly! However, at the same time, the closeness can cause a gap in learning, as if not well taught the language acquisition can end up in confusion. The Swiss Germans handle it best.

[Willi]

Really!

[Gamma]

What we must do for patois is integrate it more into cultural events and programmmes. beispiel?

[Gamma]

willi, are you happy to have patois stamped out completely?

FLEMISH is the official language of Belgium ... where else dem speak flemish? why isn't FRENCH, GERMAN or DUTCH the national language? they are all more widely spoken, no?

[1of1]

english people go to school an can't speak english, cause dat a nuh english dem a chat

[Gamma]

the 2 schools of thought cannot be reconciled.

i leave it at this, I am an advocate for the standardisation of patois and for it to be taught in schools.

[Willi]

Dutch is a dialect of Flemish!

Belgium is a Federal country with a sizable French popn (Wallonia)and a tiny German one. Sth Africa speaks it too.

[Willi]

Where yuh see I want patois stamped out by the way? Nothing could be further from the truth. The mere fact that mi nuh waan Carolyn Cooper touch it is proof that want it to continue to prosper!

Curious to understand how you come to that conclusion.