Karl another FINSACed PNP

[Karl]

I wonder on why those who were known to be corrupt were not fired and prosecuted?

[1of1]

exactly, is nuff get weh, status quo rule

[Rockman]

If JRF sole interest was to get the assets,then they would ensure that with the floating,amoebic interest rates they implemented,surely that would be no different from a loan shark,and just as criminal.
I find the activities of JRF to be dubious,and as such would welcome a criminal probe.There were those instances in which the debts were satisfied and despite that the owners...lost their businesses.
The focus should be redirected.

[Karl]

If JRF sole interest was to get the assets,then they would ensure that with the floating,amoebic interest rates they implemented,surely that would be no different from a loan shark,and just as criminal.
I find the activities of JRF to be dubious,and as such would welcome a criminal probe.There were those instances in which the debts were satisfied and despite that the owners...lost their businesses.
The focus should be redirected.

On what basis would the courts allow a property be seized when the lien has been removed? ...there is no lien on the property?

When you hear such claims, I would suggest you should not rush in to believe.

[Assasin]

In many country it would be illegal and seen as fleecing but we have no legislation in place to charge them with anything. You hear the man them from JRF say they they had to use compassion and cut interest rate for some.

What laws are in place for them not to continue to charge higher interest rate and what incentive they have to even get rid of the assets?

Criminal is to sell them for 17 cents on the dollar and let then charge high interest rate.

[Assasin]

It was doing great in the mid 80s to early 90s. Clarke seen as one of the star entrepreneur of that time.

[Don1]

Karl...the PNP regime cannot escape responsibility for the financial meltdown. They completely mismanaged the liberalization process... had no understanding of what they were getting the country into it seems..

There was no proper regulatory framework established to manage the economy from a protected state to open market operations and no proper study & communication of the optimal way forward for the economy including possible systemic risks from liberalization....they just left it up to the immature, selfish and myopic Jamaican business class to make up their own rules as they went along.

This resulted in a vast real estate bubble, a mismatch of short term money with long term investments, corrupt connected party dealings by business people, poor or no loan underwriting, undercapitalized & under-regulated banks, financial conglomerates playing casino across poorly supervised banking & insurance & investment subsidiaries... and a financial collapse aided and abetted by stupid, inflexible GOJ policy.

Yes the business people were incompetent & corrupt...but the GOJ of the day MUST own up to responsibility for regulatory failures and policy prescriptions which made the situation a further disaster.

Dem neva ready den...an dem nuh look like dem ready now

Strait talk

[Rockman]

If one does not sell the asset for just the price of the debt,then the incentive is there because it is lucrative.

[Karl]

Karl...the PNP regime cannot escape responsibility for the financial meltdown. They completely mismanaged the liberalization process... had no understanding of what they were getting the country into it seems..

There was no proper regulatory framework established to manage the economy from a protected state to open market operations and no proper study & communication of the optimal way forward for the economy including possible systemic risks from liberalization....they just left it up to the immature, selfish and myopic Jamaican business class to make up their own rules as they went along.

This resulted in a vast real estate bubble, a mismatch of short term money with long term investments, corrupt connected party dealings by business people, poor or no loan underwriting, undercapitalized & under-regulated banks, financial conglomerates playing casino across poorly supervised banking & insurance & investment subsidiaries... and a financial collapse aided and abetted by stupid, inflexible GOJ policy.

Yes the business people were incompetent & corrupt...but the GOJ of the day MUST own up to responsibility for regulatory failures and policy prescriptions which made the situation a further disaster.

Dem neva ready den...an dem nuh look like dem ready now

Strait talk

Have I said that there could not have been other decisions taken?

What is my position on businesses?
Isn't running the country not managing the largest 'business' in any country?
...what is different excepting complexity and size about managing the 'business' of family operations and managing a country?

...even Omar Davies admitted there are questions to be answered on decisions on the length of time the high interest rate regime was in place and further that there are valid questions on whether or not alternate decsions could have been made.

The raft of legistration introduced to address past financial irregularity, to allow better oversight and monitoring and introduction of penalties for flouting regulations is tacit acknowledgement that serious management errors on timing of and on the decision to implement same is the PNP's fault.

My points have never been to argue against the facts...afterall they are what they are.

My point is simply that the nonsense that the one-sided arguments of the problems these individuals and entities had was mainly of their own making. It just does not make sense for individuals and businesses to approach operations without the main task of or consideration of managing to survive and profit within the business environment. Is that not what we do in our personal lives? ...is that not what we do as we manage the 'business of our families'? Why would that be different for the owners or directors of those businesses that were FINSAC'D?

Where does a man come trembling (whether self-pity or rage or anywhere in between)...and present a case of manafacturing transformers, having no markets for same, ends up wiped out and then blame the whole world save self and point to the nonsense position of what he did and the position his company found itself...and my fellows Massive 'jump up and claim PNP and Omar's fault?

Where does the place for the reckless lending by managers of financial institutions while the directors ignored their fiduciary responsibilities as the engaged in spending inordinate time on riotous living?

I was there. We did not suffer the fate of many of these persons...but from no financial base and half-baked business plan I and my partners could and did receive 'excellent' financial backing that no well run fnancial institution would have given. We were lucky that we 'learned on the job' as we went along.

Unfortunately, we made bad decisions on our holdings as we made our decisions to leave for the US. In that transition phase I went to work for Grace, Kennedy and had what was some of the best 'schooling' I have had on managing a business.

I make mention of just one of the tasks implemented at GK while I was there...regular meeting to forecast where the foreign exchange rate would next go. Those meetings did a hell of a job of allowing for managing inventory and purchasing, costings - had implications for shifts in what was manafactured, what was bought, etc., etc...how the company repositioned itself to survive and grow.

It had analyses on our customers and end users...it even made for input on who to grant credit lines and size and terms of the credit lines...

Managing a business means adapting to market conditions. It cannot be stagnant. It would be an ass who would disregard the market conditions...and the GOJ..every GOJ bears some responsibility for the enviroment...but for business entities and managers of business or those who are attached to either of our political parties to claim it was solely the GOJ's fault is to deny the reality of what it means to run a business...besides the wild claims that the black entreprenal class was decimated or destroy are not supported by facts. It flies in the face of the many businesses that were born during that period and are still going concerns.

(We need facts on start-ups and failure rates in the country such that facts on percentages during that period are laid bare).

It is easy to make statements that are not substantiated and have emotions kick in as it is natural to wish to prove our previously held positions 'right'.

Let me ask you as it relates to your 'straight talk'...Dem neva readi and dem nuh redi now' - If that position is as a result of the 'business climate' that held then...as managed by the PNP, what weight do you give to the acknowledgement that there were inefficiencies, weaknesses and need for and implementation of actions...recognised by the then GOJ and thinking on same and steps taken to address same demontrated by among other things the introduction of the raft of legistration aimed at strengthening the financial sector? ...and how those are impacting current GOJ policies/actions? ...and impact current business environment?

Or is it the sum total of actions by the PNP is overlooked and only that which fits the thought on part of the equation - namely business that failed during that period...and the ignoring of the other part - namely businesses created during that period and those that succeded? ...to put it bluntly; based on a totality of its actions is the PNP being judged fairly?

[Gamma]

that is right karl ...overwhelm him wid volume!!!

what i know is that you have been defending the actions of omar and his finsac crew, that by itself speaks volumes!!!

[Karl]

It was doing great in the mid 80s to early 90s. Clarke seen as one of the star entrepreneur of that time.

On what basis do you say it was doing great?
What are the facts and figures behind your assessment?

I cannot remember seeing any information save on his efforts to make it successful...his 'fight' with others with interest in the plant...his work at restructuring the finances...efforts at market-share...

Cannot remember any annual report that said profits were being made. I seem to remember there was always a cash flow problem???

[Don1]

It is clear that the FINSAC issue is being used by PNP opponents to club that party. That's expected. The JLP and their supporters are desperate to turn the tide against the walloping that party is receiving from the Manatt/Dudus corruption and their steep decline in the polls... so the country can expect a full court press from the JLP side attacking the PNP on FINSAC .... so that discussion will not be balanced... it will be skewed. That's 100% expected & normal.

However the PNP in the face of that skewed presentation of FINSAC is being defensive and is unwilling to admit to any fault.... they need to own up to their failure imho...but to do so might cause political damage... so they hunker down.

It is clear to me that the PNP failed badly in managing liberalization for the reasons and with the results I mentioned.

It is also clear to me that many businesses were poorly run...including many financial companies....so clearly these incompetent business people must share blame for their demise...and not just simplistically blame PNP/high interest rates. That's an argument for simpletons.

When a weak economy is opened to competition from abroad as happened in the 1990s.... inevitably there will be businesses that fail... ie those that cannot compete with foreign imports but can only survive & prosper in a domestic market protected by tariff or non-tariff barriers... transformer guy might be an example of that. How could he efficiently make & sell transformers when smaddy else could probably import the same or better for a fraction of the cost? Jamaica had hundreds of producers that could never sustain a business without protection.... and would have gone under Omar or no Omar. Omar & Co just hastened their demise without a strategy to replace the lost production.

Where I fault the PNP is their lack of understanding of the huge changes to be brought on by liberalization, lack of preparation of the nation for those changes... especially manufacturers, ******** poor financial regulation of the greedy & myopic banking/insurance class...and then a policy stressing severe demand suppression via a sky high price for money... AKA high interest rates for a really ridiculously long time.

The PNP needs to admit fault...regardless of the politically skewed arguments against the tribe.

Selah

[Karl]

It is clear that the FINSAC issue is being used by PNP opponents to club that party. That's expected. The JLP and their supporters are desperate to turn the tide against the walloping that party is receiving from the Manatt/Dudus corruption and their steep decline in the polls... so the country can expect a full court press from the JLP side attacking the PNP on FINSAC .... so that discussion will not be balanced... it will be skewed. That's 100% expected & normal.

However the PNP in the face of that skewed presentation of FINSAC is being defensive and is unwilling to admit to any fault.... they need to own up to their failure imho...but to do so might cause political damage... so they hunker down.

It is clear to me that the PNP failed badly in managing liberalization for the reasons and with the results I mentioned.

It is also clear to me that many businesses were poorly run...including many financial companies....so clearly these incompetent business people must share blame for their demise...and not just simplistically blame PNP/high interest rates. That's an argument for simpletons.

When a weak economy is opened to competition from abroad as happened in the 1990s.... inevitably there will be businesses that fail... ie those that cannot compete with foreign imports but can only survive in a tariff protected domestic market... transformer guy might be an example of that. How could he efficiently make & sell transformers when smaddy else could probably import the same or better for a fraction of the cost? Jamaica had hundreds of producers that could never sustain a business without tariff protection.... and would have gone under Omar or no Omar.

Where I fault the PNP is their lack of understanding of the huge changes to be brought on by liberalization, lack of preparation of the nation for those changes... especially manufacturers, ******** poor financial regulation of the greedy & myopic banking/insurance class...and then a policy stressing severe demand suppression via a sky high price for money... AKA high interest rates for a really ridiculously long time.

The PNP needs to admit fault...regardless of the politically skewed arguments against the tribe.

Selah

Now yuh talkin!
...I think, even iof we forget the actions they took after the horse had fled the barn...they have been slowly admiting to some culpability in other ways by the interjection of carefully crafted words/sentences in various comments on what took place. No doubt part of the political strategy to manage that.

For example, how often has Omar been recently using the statement that sells the idea that alternate actions can be debated?

How often has statements been made on the length of time the "high interest rate policy" was allowed to run?

...and what tone has the push back on Blythe's comments taken?

Yup!
I agree with your above post.
...and it is your right to argue on the method on how the acceptance of their part in what occurred is handled.

That the PNP could have been more upfront and forceful in apportioning blame to their role? Of course!

I am sure how it is being handled is determined by 'the politics'.

[Karl]

If one does not sell the asset for just the price of the debt,then the incentive is there because it is lucrative.

Thank yuh!
...any and all collection company the basis of the business is...duh?... collection. i.e. money can only be made by disposing of assets.

...even say collection on credit card debts - it is all about collecting on the debt i.e. disposing of that 'money asset'.

[Don1]

Omar is not credible...he should be retired in the public interest... at least from the finance portfolio

The fact that the PNP still allows him to speak for them on financial matters speaks volumes about that party's failure to get a grip on reality....and their own decline & bankrupt leadership.

That tribe cannot be taken seriously at the current time imho.