Historian step up explain this ...its called JAZZ?

[Sir X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNGHJvnFNcU.


Which tune was blazing in the back ground ? Horn music ?

[Sir X]

Guess who this Jazz trombonist biggest influence is ? Sleep on that and he calls it JAZZ!

Trombonist / Bandleader Josh Roseman Releases New Constellations on Accurate Records, September 2007
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SOURCE: ALLEGRO MEDIA, Published: 2007-08-06
NEW WORKS RECORDED LIVE AT THE BIRDLAND CLUB IN VIENNA INFLUENCED BY ROSEMAN'S ADMIRATION FOR SKA LEGEND DON DRUMMOND TAKE ON A BOLD AND INNOVATIVE APPROACH

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE --- August 7, 2007 - BROOKLYN, NY: Josh Roseman has recorded and toured with the creme de la creme of progressive modern jazz: Dave Holland, Dave Douglas, Steve Coleman and Don Byron, to name but a few. In and outside of these contexts, Roseman projects a big personality, with a kaleidoscopic, boundless approach to music.

In addition to being a cutting-edge live jazz recording, his upcoming New Constellations is also a high-tech remix album and homage to one of the founding fathers of ska- the visionary trombonist Don Drummond.

Roseman (whose mother is Jamaican), began conceptualizing the New Constellations band while recording with ska pioneers Tommy McCook, Roland Alphonso and the Skatalites, a total immersion in Drummond's songwriting and playing legacy. Roseman reflects, “When we played Kingston, Don D's tracks were blasting from sound systems across the countryside every night of the week. You got the sense of what his music meant for the people. There are very few parallels for that in the trombone world, maybe Barry Rogers with Eddie Palmieri, Duke's men or Fred Wesley here in the States."

Drummond's eccentric phrasing and anthemic melodies struck a chord: “Don's music has helped to complete my image of the instrument. The sound is hardwired for me. As a player, it's part of my roots."

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/news.php?id=14708

2 more for you Mr Ska -azz man .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvikul5f54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9zq4...eature=related


The great Jazz musicians are not followers but innovators , they dont have time to quote history or misinterpet it butare too busy creating it.

You can teach me about Jazz? and I doubt I would take lessons from you, My Grandmother taught me all I need to know about music , well she tried I was a mess at the piano , but I watched and listened as she taught my cousin, no ska, or jazz, just classical christain music, but trust me I learned my little music by observation.

Truth is not everyone can play an instruement at the same level , you should know this , so while you limit yourself, Jazz and ska to 4/4 others can do wonders with that , that you and I can dream of those are whom we call the greats, twist it in such away , you forget what its name is and its foundation is and give birth to genres like SKA!

[Sir X]

I will leave you to twist , the debate is over for me .....yuh right SKA isnt JAZZ , try telling di likkle man dem dat .

References both literally , musically and video provided.

gdnight.....its the marcus Garvey of JAZZ.

[Sir X]

I cant leave without sharing this

Dub , Ska to Jazz all mixed into one , if you like just call it .......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uez0hruOvOw&NR=1

[TDowl]

Damn, wait is it Jah Shaka on the Dub?

Why Ska is so popular in Commercials?

This want some Appleton and Compari fe de Empress, more dub fiyah.

[Historian]

X, You Still Don't Understand!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNGHJvnFNcU.

Which tune was blazing in the back ground ? Horn music ?

Is this a trick question, X ? I’m not sure what I have said in previous posts that you find difficult to understand, boss. Despite your immense love for ska, the simple, indisputable fact is that the form of music developed in Jamaica and which became known as ska is NOT played anywhere as much as jazz, reggae, or rock!!

Listening to the YouTube video above, I think it’s obvious that these are creative musicians (in fact, probably jazz musicians) who, for reasons of their own, decided to play the first piece on this YouTube video to a ska beat.

As I tried explaining to you in a previous thread:

1 Jazz musicians, because of the creativity afforded by the genre broadly known as jazz, venture into all sorts of genres as a way of exploring the limits of their creativity (and of music). Interestingly, just last night I was listening to the jazz CD, “A Twist of Marley,” the musical tribute to Bob Marley by a plethora of musicians, including jazz greats like Lee Ritenour, Michael Brecker, Patti Austin, etc.

The Josh Roseman Unit (the last video you posted in this thread) and their “Long Day, Short Night” piece is a perfect example of musicians who have chosen to experiment with different types of rhythms, including the rather exotic ska. This is nothing new, and people like Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, Mashishnu John McLaughlin, Chick Corea and his group Return to Forever, Billy Cobham, Miles Davis, and a million other jazz greats have been doing so for decades!!

2 Jazz remains one of the most popular forms of music (much, much more played than ska, in fact) for the simple reason that, even more than classical music, jazz offers challenges and new avenues for musicians who have reached a certain level of development.

Therefore, a musician who has developed in technique and knowledge will invariably (almost inevitable, some might say) venture into jazz. This is true for Jamaica’s great musicians (almost without exception) as it is for musicians in many countries across the globe.

[Sir X]

LOL...you have come full circle , glad to have you on board....

Didnt I say this ? Ska bands recruit from Jazz bands ?Didnt I say they crossover on the professional circuit ? From Jazz to Ska to Dub ?

I also said that some Jazz musicain claim Ska is Jazz, Jamaican Jazz , see my references from all jazz.com.

Popularity contest comes from the records sold and whats being performed at clubs and from what I see in NY , the purist form of Ska is played on par with and in Jazz/Ska clubs with DUB music , why would the U.K the gateway to Europe be different seeing, that we have a heavy W.I population and rich culture of SKA ? I dont see Jazz on par with SKA in the far east i.e Japan .They have a Ska festival in Europe every year.Germany has a popular Ska band called DR Ring Ding that do well in the Jazz/Ska market.

You make absurd and ridiculous claims only to come full circle i.e JAZZ isnt SKA ! Its popularity ! Its History ( Byron Lee ) its value or richness in versality as a music form !You even dismissed the bands as playing World Music where Ska is just a part of it , Now its Jazz "broadly known and venture into and explore " So are you dismissing Dizzy , Sarah and Shearing who compliment our style as the Marcus Garvey of Jazz or Don D as one of the greatest Trombonist ?


I took pleasure in dismissing you with references , video , articles and web links , all you have come with is I dont get it ? and your personal opninion ?More astute Jazz musicans have claimed Ska as a genre of Jazz.

Boss your History class is over and I will never get it from you (sarcasm).

Dismissed.


Jazz musicians, because of the creativity afforded by the genre broadly known as jazz, venture into all sorts of genres as a way of exploring the limits of their creativity (and of music). Interestingly, just last night I was listening to the jazz CD, “A Twist of Marley,” the musical tribute to Bob Marley by a plethora of musicians, including jazz greats like Lee Ritenour, Michael Brecker, Patti Austin, etc.

[Historian]

LOL...you have come full circle , glad to have you on board....

Jazz musicians, because of the creativity afforded by the genre broadly known as jazz, venture into all sorts of genres as a way of exploring the limits of their creativity (and of music). Interestingly, just last night I was listening to the jazz CD, “A Twist of Marley,” the musical tribute to Bob Marley by a plethora of musicians, including jazz greats like Lee Ritenour, Michael Brecker, Patti Austin, etc.

I have NOT “come full circle”!! There is nothing I said this morning that I wasn’t saying from the first post!! I initially responded to you because you made posts that gave the impression that jazz musicians were falling over themselves to play ska! This is a completely incorrect view! Nothing like this is the case.

And once again, jazz is NOT ska!! Occasionally some jazz musicians, in their continuing experiment with various types of rhythms, find themselves playing ska. And yes, ska IS regarded as “World Music”!

You don’t see jazz “on par with ska in the Far East” because jazz music is NOT commercial music. Jazz musicians barely eke out a living because jazz, like classical, is art music. Jazz records do not generally go to the top of the Billboard charts, for example. For a time in the 1970s, jazz recording artists like George Benson and had hits because certain producers successfully merged jazz with commercial arrangements
(producers like Creed Taylor, etc., etc.).

Now, X, my comment has consistently being that ska is NOT as popular as you make it out to be! This is a fact! As I said in another thread, from time to time the odd jazz musician or group will decide to do a number on the fast 4/4 rhythm known as ska. But jazz musicians tend to experiment with many different rhythms, of which ska is merely one. For example, a great deal more jazz musicians play to funk rhythms than jazz!

You talk about a “heavy West Indian population.” How many West Indians are into ska? The average West Indian is more into reggae and dancehall, which is why very few Caribbean musicians play ska.

[Sir X]

Full circle and XPOSED ! I can give you my opinions like you have given yours and quote it as fact , I wont instead I have given you references.

You have given me consistenly naught but your C.V , you are a Jazz musican who misinterpets history to justify some superiority that Jazz is supposed to have over SKA ?

It isnt Jazz to you but to some its quoted as Jamaica JAZZ , a nuh me say suh, man bigger than me and you.Again references are supplied by alljazz.com.

Popularity speaks for itself when Jazz musicains include it in their musical reporite ? There was a time when american Jazz musicians new little or nothing about it , is that not true?

When a young Jazz musician can say he styles himself off Don D and not Fontana or J.J johnson its proof of its influence , its pollination as one of my articles referred to and the influence of SKA on young Jazz will continue to grow.As for commercialisation wasnt Jazz a commercial music form isnt it now ? So why not SKA ? the fact that it conquers the far east says what about it ? Dont they have access to the Jazz market too ? Are you saying Ska musians eek out a better living thus its more popular and viable in the far east?....Boss yuh tun fool ? Mek sense again nuh man ?

Again you are off on a tangent , how many west indians are into ska ? how many afro americans are into Jazz? Again mek sense nuh man ! Jazz is catered to the cultured VH1 audience , so is SKA !

Arent we talking about the influence of both ? Jazz is a black american art form that has a niche market,SKA is a jamaican art form that has its niche market , sad to say ours isnt in Jamaica but in other parts of the world where other appreciate it .Does it take away from its influence ? or does it declare its influence when the foundation has rotten away and died and new roots have sprung up all over the world , to the extent where it competes with its master for influence ?

Ska conquered England in the 40s and 50s/60s and left its mark there , spawning a 2nd and third wave to the states where it was pop/punk orientated, now the 3/4th wave is influencing the master (Jazz) .Yes it came full circle where Jazz shows indulge in the purist of Ska.Again see my NY times article where Ska bands recruit from Jazz bands.

So whats the next obvious step in the course of pollination , American Jazz will undoubtedy continue to be influnced by ska and vice versa and the two will grow and co exist with each other , as it is happening now.

As for Jamaicans and West Indians we sold , wrote off and misinterpeted our birth right SKA from the 70s .The Argentinians, Japanese, Americans and English/Europeans, Mexicans have bought it.Yess bloody Mexicans.Some would argue we never accepted it engaging in class warfare where Lynn said it was "Ghetto Music " and Tommy said they fought against the skattalites and it was proven when Byron Lee was sent to the Worlds fair in the 60s...again literrally and video evidence was provided.


Your opinions are weak and dying , Sad when it comes from a Jamaican Jazz musican who should know better.

[HL]

Historian...long...looong ago--when X introduced this Ska=Jazz concept, I corrected him.

I am impressed by your knowledge (and extreme calm) that you went about showing the differences in the genre. That from time to time Jazz musicians venture (an experiment) into other musical genres.

A few year ago I was at a David Benois concert-- and during the set, the band broke out in a Shabba Ranks reggae (instrumental ) piece. Much to the amusement of the audience...............>>>>!

X, I admire your love for Ska; this genre (which) in significance ,(for the most part) cannot be compared to Jazz, has stood the test of time.

[Sir X]

Spoken like a true Historian , you need to educate the other Jazz musicians .

The His- repretentations of Ska continues.I am glad you have company.Must be lonely out there.

Ska a carry di swing in the Jazz clubs.Undeniable.

[Willi]

Feedback from a Jazz music lover in the US.

Have you listened to any of Lincoln Mayorga's K2HD (FIM) CDs? Probably the best sounding CD in my collection of CDs is "We get Requests" Oscar Peterson on the FIM label.

I'd forgotten to mention Ras Child/McAnuff in the list of "ear-mind shockers"

I have, by most standards, a large CD collection, too, specifically bought (except for $1 bins) for musical and sound quality. For instance, Bright Mississippi is fabulous, Allen Toussaint's disc.

If you are not acquainted with Toussaint, he would have been Elvis Presley if he wasn't black...heavily involved with Rock. He always wanted to do a Jazz LP, and "Bright Mississippi" is his penultimate recording. Very firmly based in New Orleans Jazz yet possessing a modern Jazz feel.

[Historian]

Yep, Very Correct!

Historian...long...looong ago--when X introduced this Ska=Jazz concept, I corrected him.

I am impressed by your knowledge (and extreme calm) that you went about showing the differences in the genre. That from time to time Jazz musicians venture (an experiment) into other musical genres.

A few year ago I was at a David Benois concert-- and during the set, the band broke out in a Shabba Ranks reggae (instrumental ) piece. Much to the amusement of the audience...............>>>>!

X, I admire your love for Ska; this genre (which) in significance ,(for the most part) cannot be compared to Jazz, has stood the test of time.

HL, thank you for the kind words . Thanks also for the reference to the David Benoit concert. It’s a perfect illustration to what both you and I have been trying to explain for some time now. By the way, you certainly have good taste, boss, as that guy Benoit is an excellent jazz pianist!

The final sentence in your statement (I have highlighted it above) is the perfect wrap-up to this entire debate. Excellent statement!

By the way, the sentence below, which I posted yesterday inside this thread, might have given my debate opponent the wrong idea. I should have stated: “This is nothing new, and people like Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, Mashishnu John McLaughlin, Chick Corea and his group Return to Forever, Billy Cobham, Miles Davis, and a million other jazz greats have been experimenting with different types of rhythms for decades!!”

The Josh Roseman Unit (the last video you posted in this thread) and their “Long Day, Short Night” piece is a perfect example of musicians who have chosen to experiment with different types of rhythms, including the rather exotic ska. This is nothing new, and people like Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, Mashishnu John McLaughlin, Chick Corea and his group Return to Forever, Billy Cobham, Miles Davis, and a million other jazz greats have been doing so for decades!!