Bwoy.. certain elements a fight gainst yuh

[Willi]

Shearer did do a big concentration on CAPITAL expenditure on Education. Most of the secondary schools we know were were built back then.

Manley spent more on the recurring Educational budget, most especially a full subsidy for all students to go to Secondary and tertiary levels.

[Muadib]

why yuh keep fooling yuhself.. ?

di man has a perception and has found some numbers to feed into it..

The Propaganda Campaign for the moment is Poor People and Education..

Yuh nevah get di PNP Memo ?

Maybe you need to move to a different Household.

Stop challenging the fundamental tenets of his Household Upbringing.. if you take that away what do you leave a man ???

[Muadib]

show me the numbers !!!

[Willi]

Neither of you guys have done a full analysis.

Absolute spending as well as percentage spending needs to be looked at.

To be cynical, if you maintain absolute spending in an environment of contracting GNP, you may not really be improving anything. This is not to say this was the casein the 1970s where GNP did in fact contract, but I suspect that absolute spending may well have increased to fulfill the commitment of free education. On top of that JAMAL spending can be counted as well.

Conversely, if GDP is growing aggressively and the educ. budget only get modest increases, then the overall funding rate will fall.

Guys, rather than bicker about the past, it is better to look back at what happened without recriminations and LEARN from the past. It is clear to me that Manley did good things, but had loose management and no real long term sustainable planning. It is also clear that the JLP was not a do nothing party in terms of education, but perhaps concentrated too much on educational infrastructure, rather than access and remedial education.

I suspect of Daddy Manley was around in that era, he would have done better than BOTH sets. Pity Seaga never humble himself and tek that starting position with Norman Manley. Jamaica would have been better off in sooo many ways. They were both good central planners and decent managers.

[Don1]

So where is the disagreement?

Is it style over substance?

The disagreement is that we ask the wrong questions...

The real question is how important is education to national development vs other inputs ...in this case roads

Education is given short shrift by most politicians ...and also by big business which supports them

[Don1]

The basic problem is still untouched...there is no commitment of either party to increase education funding intelligently & cooperatively over time to a level where it can effectively drive development...

The tribes too easily get sidetracked by partisan & short term political issues to maintain a long term focus..

This whole education posting began when I saw the Minister of Education begging for alms.... meanwhile the construction guy was boasting of the massive spend of Chiney money to repair roads

[Don1]

Full analysis?? ....ah joke dat...all that comparative element is accounted for when one analyses historic spending as a % of GDP vs our competitors... and the relative outcomes in terms of school enrollment and literacy over time which I posted.... whey yuh want more dan dat? It's clear that Jamaica lagged from the 1960s to today.

Jamaica was at the bottom of the regional education spending % in the 1960s vs our neighbours...increased dramatically 1972- 1976 and has been level or declining since since ....there is an apparent lack of belief in education from politicians and their business supporters...but road werk has a strong constituency

No two ways about it

Plus Muadib nuh analyse...im juss look to di JLP website fi im inspiration... LOL

[Don1]

how then do you explain secondary enrollment being flat throughout the decade?

[Muadib]

Suh yuh ah guh tear down di Construction man because him ah duh him wuk ?

But ah wheh di.... ?!

[Muadib]

eeediat.. yuh tink is a coincidence dat it decline since 1976... ?

If Manley nevah eff up di foundation of di country yuh would not have anything fi chat bout today... the plan was to attack education from 1966 and continue on to greater heights...any fool could see that.

Stap over-analyze di ting...

Is like yuh unnastan seh Jamaica economy has never fully recovered from Manley and when it was somewhat stabilized unnuh vote in di eediat dem.. Manley dead and by PJ and Co tek us down again... extrapolate from dat...

******** bwoy... unnuh nuh tyad chat bare effery ?

[Willi]

In absolute numbers are percentage of eligible kids?

[Don1]

the flat secondary enrollment number in the 1960s ~45% means that the secondary placements were growing...but only at the same pace as the additions to that school age cohort.

It also means there was zero progress in getting the majority of kids left behind ...ie the 55%... into the school system... so Jamaica would have actually ended the decade with MORE (in gross numbers) secondary age kids OUTSIDE the school system than we started the 1960s with..... obviously because in 1970 it would be 55% of a larger base population

That is almost criminal neglect

[Willi]

Then the school building program, though the fastest ever to that point, was insufficient!

This means that we should have spent waaay more.

Costa Rica puts more emphasis on education and health and less on roads and army. They are better poised, but the roads are HORRIBLE and a real impediment to development. The also abandoned their rail service so transport is a real problem there. A balance must be stuck and we can do that if we unite around a vision.

[Don1]

Then the school building program, though the fastest ever to that point, was insufficient!

This means that we should have spent waaay more.

Costa Rica puts more emphasis on education and health and less on roads and army. They are better poised, but the roads are HORRIBLE and a real impediment to development. The also abandoned their rail service so transport is a real problem there. A balance must be stuck and we can do that if we unite around a vision.

I have no data on this massive school building just anecdotes.... the data I have is on enrollment & spend as a GDP factor. Suffice it to say that before the 1960s it was the British in charge....yuh cyaan expec dem kinda peeple fi build tuh much skool...suh dat deh comparison nuh werk. We could ask Muadib to locate the data but if it's not on the JLP site that might not be feasible.

Costa Rica's road situation whatever it is didn't stop Intel from putting in a Billion dollar chip plant there in the 1990s (at least we make banana chips in Portland..or is that St Mary?) Microsoft also has manufacturing there (CR not Portie) ..and the country has developed an ecosystem of tech suppliers around those operations... That's a result of smart investment in the education superhighway by successive govts there. But many are ecstatic when a politician hosts a fund raiser and buys a few computers for a school...Yay!

Plus CR dem ball wi up an dung di field

Methinks Los Ticos have struck the right balance

[Willi]

No they have not. More to it than that...however their balance is better than ours.

The roads are HORRIBLE so till it can tek 3 hours to drive 10 miles with no traffic. All land rover axel can get cracked inna dem deh pothole. i have good tico friends and spent my honeymoon there. You need physical infrastucture as well, why yuh think obama bawling in the USA??

The JLP in the 1960s built virtually ALL the secondary and all age schools that we have. I think they did the tech schools as well. Manley did the German Auto school and DQ secondary and a few others in Kingston and rural parts.