Mitty, my response to your comments

[Historian]

Before I go any further, let me state at the outset that this post of mine is not an attempt to promote Barbados in any way, or alternatively to downgrade Jamaica! It is simply a response to certain erroneous comments made by another poster, the types of comments that far too many of us like to latch on to with glee as evidence of Jamaica’s “Caribbean supremacy”!

In addition, two facts about Barbados may be pertinent here: Barbados is a tiny Caribbean island with a population (2009) of 285,000. Interestingly, Barbados suffers from high unemployment in the midst of a highly educated workforce.

Now to poster Mitty’s questionable comments.

We also have more tertiary educated people than all the islands combined.

I personally know of Jamaican professionals who were hired in Bdos, from Ja because of their expertise.

This, of course, is sheer nonsense and reflects the arrogance that has caused many other Caribbean people to regard Jamaicans with annoyance and displeasure! There are many educated people across the length and breadth of the Caribbean, so to state that Jamaica (which, incidentally, has one of the highest illiteracy rates in the Caribbean) “has more tertiary educated people than all the islands combined” is the type of blind boasting that turns so many others off.

For your information, Cuba has much, much more tertiary level educated people than Jamaica can even hope to have at this time!!

Nevertheless, consider this fact: In the United Nations’ 2010 Human Development Index (HDI), Barbados was ranked 3rd in the Americas (behind Canada and the USA) and 42nd in the world in terms of of educational attainment, as measured by adult literacy and enrolment at the primary, secondary and tertiary level.

We in Jamaica are damn lucky to have a population of almost 3 million people, otherwise your claim would be beyond mere nonsense. Have you ever considered comparing Jamaica’s tertiary level results on a per capita basis against other Caribbean states?

Can u please name me a Bajan multinational company? Or any organization that seriously consider investing in Barbados.

Is this a serious question?! I have no intention of doing your research for you, but consider this fact: Barbados is the third leading destination for Canadian direct investment abroad, (it attracted Cdn$40.8 billion of direct investment from Canada at the end of 2009).

I could provide more details of foreign investments in Barbados, but why should I disturb your comfort zone? Consider this though: things like a low crime rate (one of the lowest in this part of the world) and a high standard of living (see the UN and World Bank reports on Barbados) are incentives that attract foreign investors. For example, Barbados was ranked 5th in the Americas (and 33rd out of 111 countries) in the Economist Intelligence Unit's Quality of Life Index 2005.

Barbados still have a very immature trade market as they still peg their currency to the US dollar and other currencies, just like China.

What is wrong with pegging the dollar to the US currency?! Maybe Jamaica should consider pegging our currency to the US dollar.

Barbados

do need us more than we need them even if its just to get access to our market.
U acting like Jamaicans ongle go deh to look fi menial jobs.

First, “access to our market” for what? Is Barbados now a significant manufacturing country? While there is some light manufacturing in that Caribbean island, Barbados’ primary economic branches are tourism, the international business sector (offshore banking, etc.), in addition to, of course, foreign direct-investment. A closer look at the labour force (mid-1990s estimate) reveals that the service industry (tourism, banking, etc.) accounts for 75 percent of the people employed, agriculture 10 percent and industry 15 percent.

Secondly, here’s a question for you: Why do you think we are so widely regarded in negative ways in some of these other islands? Do you think it’s because of the professionals such as the doctors, nurses and teachers that we export to those islands?

The fact is that a large percentage of Jamaicans who go to the various smaller islands, aside from the teachers, nurses and some doctors who tend to be the main professionals we export, are persons seeking lower range jobs like domestic help, construction work, and so on, hence a part of the questionable conduct by too many of our (relatively uneducated, that is) nationals.

Incidentally, Barbados’ GDP per capita stands at around $19,000-plus (this is based on a 2008 estimate). The most recent estimate, on the other hand, shows Jamaica’s GDP per capita as a little over $8,000.

In his 2005 study, “The Barbados Labour Market: A Diagnostic Study and Reform Proposals,” Professor Andrew S. Downes categorized the following regarding the Barbados labour market:
“The Government, general services, distribution/commerce, tourism and, to some extent, construction/quarrying were the main absorbers of labour in Barbados. Government has been the single largest employer of labour, with the share of government employment in total employment moving from 21 percent in 1995 to 21.5 percent in 2003.”

In fact, there has been a significant shift away from manufacturing, as professor Downes noted: “The sectoral distribution of the employed labour force therefore reflects the general shift of economic activity from agriculture and manufacturing towards the services sector which employed over 70 percent of the total number of persons employed during the 1995-2003 period.”

Dem too insecure when dem si yardies...Yardies rule everytime

Any whe we go we run tings.

Here is the paradox: If “any whe we go we run tings,” why on earth can’t we run our own “tings”? The last time I checked, the International Monetary Fund was AGAIN calling the shots from the background. Please spare me that nonsense about “yardies rule everytime” and “any whe we go we run tings”!

For a country with the vast human and natural resources that Jamaica has, I am still flabbergasted that we still rank, according to the recent annual UN and World Bank reports, towards the bottom of the Caribbean barrel in terms of development! (I could post the various reports, including the UN Development reports, but why should I bother?)

But, for some strange reason, despite our failures (caused primarily by the failure, corrupt practices and shortsightedness of our politicians, but also by other non-political reasons), we still boastfully proclaim that “Yardies rule”!

[Mitty]

All the research you did , still didnt refute any of my statements. U just cant simply restate my statements to fit your responses and claim u answer dem. Maybe I should have cite my sources, but these statements are not just idle talk.

The statement that Jamaica has more tertiary educated people than all the English speaking islands is not my original statement. This statement was made by the leaders of several small Caribbean islands as it relates to the open competition for jobs across the caricom islands.

Another thing, I am sure u are aware that aggregate and per capita are two different ways of quantifying any metric. If u cant refute de aggregate claim dont reframe it into per capita and big up u chest.

While the disparity in population between the two countries is obvious, especially if we are quantifying tertiary level educated nationals. Your response is irrelevant to my statement.

Mi ask u fi name two Bajan multinationals and u go off on a tangent a talk bout farin direct investment and other crap.

The deception in your responses leave me no other choice but to ignore the rest of your arguments. I am at work and would rather spend my time in more productive pursuits.

Figget the last two statements, those were said in a humourous..anecdotal ... or just simply as cliches. Nuh tek dem too seriously.

Anyway, respect still as some of the statements u made were right, they just didnt address my statements.

[Historian]

And that statement is incorrect!

The statement that Jamaica has more tertiary educated people than all the English speaking islands is not my original statement. This statement was made by the leaders of several small Caribbean islands as it relates to the open competition for jobs across the caricom islands.

Mitty, no hard feelings, boss.

Nevertheless, with all respect I submit that your comment in its original form, is an incorrect, hyperbolic statement. Note that your original statement said “We also have more tertiary educated people than all the islands combined.”

I mentioned Cuba as having a more impressive tertiary level output than any Caribbean island, including Jamaica. Cuba, in fact, has about 47 universities, and the Cuban government spends about 10 percent of its budget on education. Education from primary to university level is free for every Cuban.

Other countries such as Guyana are highly ranked as far as education is concerned. In fact (and this is admittedly straying from the point), if you look at the annual CXC results, you will see that a high school in Guyana, Queen’s College, often has the most outstanding performers.

But I digress….

[Mitty]

Again, u r right with regards to Cuba, but Cuba is not a Caricom member state. That statement was made within the context of Caricom nations and the free movement of workers across borders.

I should have been more specific and said Caricom english speaking islands, but I will not use semantics and disqualify Guyanese as they are Caricom members, albeit not an island.

Still, I heard several Caricom leaders state that Jamaica has more tertiary educated people than all the islands combine and that will pose a problem when the single market economy is consumated. Even if Ja has this advantage just by our population.

As for Guyana, I have no doubt that their school(s) performs well at CXC (not considered tertiary education).

I remember listening to a cricket broadcast and heard one of the Bajan commentators said they are over 20,000 illegal Guyanese in their country and T&T have a whole heap more. With their excellence in CXC passes (still not tertiary education), why arent they staying home and helping to develop their country???

[Muadib]

I must object here.. Campion dun all ah dem last year !

[Historian]

I Understand

Thanks for the reply .

Incidentally, Mitty, although Guyana is a Caricom member state and one of the founders of Caricom, I am not enthusiastic about the headquarters of Caricom being located, as it is, in Georgetown, Guyana. Many Guyanese will say with pride (I have been told this numerous times over the years) that they are “not Caribbean (people)” but rather, “South Americans.”

Anyway, this is just my personal feeling, but the headquarters of Caricom should have been placed on one of the islands instead of on a remote section of the South American continent.

Regarding the situation with Guyana, you raised a good question. There is a huge migration from that impoverished country to various destinations, but unlike Jamaicans who stay in close touch with their native country and, in fact, many times return home to live, rarely do Guyanese return home.

The serious economic challenges (since the failed socialist era of Forbes Burnham) is the primary problem, but a fierce socio-political environment, which sees the majority East Indian population sometimes pitted against the blacks, adds to the reason why black Guyanese (in particular) migrate from that South American country in constant droves. The current party in power, headed by President Bharrat Jagdeo, is the East Indian party started by the late Cheddi Jagan, and there is widespread discrimination against blacks in political and economic matters (employment, for example) in Guyana.

And you are correct about the large number of Guyanese residing in Barbados and Trinidad. In another thread, I made reference to the immense contempt with which Guyanese nationals are faced in Barbados.

Finally, that Guyanese school, Queen’s College, is unusual, and this is reflected in the high CXC passes it receives. It does not mean that Queen’s College is better than Jamaica’s top schools. Rather, students at Queen’s are allowed to do as much as fourteen (14) subjects in CXC, and this accounts for that school often having the best results. Jamaican schools do not see the need (and neither do I) for having students do 14 subjects. This, to me, would be ridiculous and unnecessary.

On a lighter note, not many people realize that celebrity singer Rihanna is part Guyanese. Rihanna’s mother is Guyanese, but her father is Barbadian .

[Mitty]

The statement regarding Cuba is right, but Cuba is not a Caricom member state.
As for Guyana, I am sure they have excellent CXC passes at Queens college, but CXC passes does not qualify as tertiary education.

The statement was made within the context of Caricom member islands and the free movement of workers once the single market economy deal is consumated. However, I will not use semantics and disqualify Guyana as they are a caricom member, albeit not an island.

Again, this is not my original statement, this was one of the major concern of the smaller Caricom countries and spoken by several of their leaders.

How is the statement incorrect?

U r trying to say this statement is incorrect by using facts that does not support your line of reasoning. Including a non caricom country and CXC passes by a Caricom member as your argument is not suffice.

If u want to dance you must be able to at least hear the music or u must be dancing to that music in your head that nobody else can ear.

CXC passes as tertiary education and Cuba as a Caricom member?!?

Anyway, respect sah. I get the point u r trying to make about Ja and arrogance. Next time mek sure your facts are align with your arguments... Respect

[Mitty]

OOps didnt mean to post the same argument twice, thought there was a computer glitch that stole my post... figget dis