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How can a regime implode so soon and with such flair?? LOL
Lightbourne accuses Leys of being untruthful
BY PAUL HENRY Crime/Court coordinator henryp@jamaicaobserver.com
Wednesday, March 09, 2011
JUSTICE Minister Dorothy Lightbourne on several occasions yesterday accused Solicitor General Douglas Leys of not being truthful in his evidence to the Commission of Enquiry looking into the Government's handling of the extradition request for former Tivoli Gardens strongman Christopher 'Dudus' Coke.
During her second day under cross-examination it was also suggested that Lightbourne, who is also the country's attorney general, was herself not being truthful when she said that she only learnt that Leys visited the law offices of the American firm Manatt, Phelps and Phillips when it was mentioned by Opposition Member of Parliament Dr Peter Phillips in the House on March 16, 2010.
The Hansard report of that parliamentary sitting that was read did not indicate that Phillips spoke of Leys visiting the firm.
Lightbourne and her Jamaica Labour Party (JLP) colleagues who appeared before the commission were accused by Queen's Counsel KD Knight of trying to frustrate the efforts the commission of finding the truth.
In relation to Leys, Knight — who is representing the Opposition People's National Party — asked: "Mr Leys said that when he came back from the United States, Washington, DC, he told you that an American lawyer had gone to the Department of Justice and sat in on the meeting. Was he telling the truth?"
"No he was not telling the truth," Lightbourne responded.
KD: "Mr Leys said that he told you about the firm Manatt, Phelps and Phillips when he came back from the United States, was he telling the truth?"
"No, he was not telling the truth. He did not tell me," Lightbourne responded.
Asked Knight: "Mr Leys said that he called you from the United States and that in a discussion you gave your permission for an American lawyer to attend the meeting at the Department of Justice. Was he telling the truth?"
"He did call me from the United States; he did tell me about meeting American lawyers; he did not tell me about the lawyer going to that meeting," Lightbourne said, prompting Knight to ask: "Do you have any idea why this person who you knew as a truthful person, so far, would tell these untruth?"
"Mr chairman, Mr Leys had also said in this commission that he did not tell me that," Lightbourne said. But her response drew strong objection from Leys' lawyer Oliver Smith.
"Mr chairman," Smith said "... that is not the evidence. That is not a proper recollection of the evidence."
The meeting being referred to was held on December 17, 2009. The meeting, attended by a delegation including Leys, Deputy Solicitor General Lackston Robinson and the foreign ministry's permanent secretary, Evadne Coye, was decided on after failed talks in the early stages after the request was sent.
Meanwhile, Lightbourne yesterday maintained that she was not informed by the prime minister that a law firm would be hired to assist with lobbying Jamaica's objection to the United States' extradition request of August 25, 2009.
Knight also suggested that Lightbourne was not being truthful when she said that Jamaica Defence Force lawyer Patrick Cole spoke with her on the August 25, 2009 about wanting to meet to discuss the speeding up of Coke's extradition.
She also said that up to September 6, Jamaica was not being stonewalled by the US Government regarding the legal issues concerning the extradition request. Manatt, Phelps and Phillips was hired that same month.
COMMENTS (23)
rag monty
3/9/2011
I wouldnt believe Leys and Hamilton because you dont call someone to tell them of something they have prior knowledge of. If the AG had known about this whole thing the thing to do would be to send memos of the minutes of the meeting rarther than calling every other day. I guess the only new info they could be giving (had she known) would be the state of the male bathrooms at the office.
nervous investor
3/9/2011
Island Patriot - I think that you need to develop a respect for truth. What evidence you could have for your statements must reside in fantasyland. Kd's theatrics and carefully cultivated bad manners would make him more at home in a stage play than in a Court such as this. He should emigrate to Hollywood or Bollywood and seek employment there.
george watson
3/9/2011
My good friend Kweli says I am casting the AG in a negative light and he says it is in fact KD’s methods and attitude which is antagonistic and discourteous.
Listen to this discourse between them both, just after K.D. had wished all women well on WD.
K.D.: “You’re a member of the Senate, correct?
A.G.” That is so Mr. Chairman, I suffer abuse every week.” .
She continued to cast barbs whenever she could.
Kweli goes on to say “One would hope that we see the activities of the COE without the political lenses.” I agree with you Sir, but I hope you would take your own advice.
And why whatever the JLP does have to be patterned after PNP behavior?
Island Patriot
3/9/2011
T Lester, unfortunately, for Ms. Lightbourne, each response she gives for documented occurrences, their is physical evidence provided to the contrary, which only works against her, and steering the general populous towards believing Leys and Hamilton. Since she get catch in a di lie, so way mek mi wouldn't believe Leys and Hamilton den?
Obi Wan
3/9/2011
The AG is acting appropriately. She need not direct her responses to the lawyer because he is not the fact finder; this is the responsibility of the commission. Also the commission is not a court and the AG is not a defendant. The lawyer is therefore rude and discourteous to her and her position to direct her to respond with "Yes/No" answers.
Dwight Barnes
3/9/2011
I was in total amazement as the AG of the country answered the questions that were posed. She is clearly out of her league. Another startling revelation was her adamant stance that Mr. Leys had lied under oath. The AG needs to go along with the PM who appointed her to the seminal post.
mike delisser
3/9/2011
The elephant in the room is how deep the nexus of crime and politics really is. No one seems willing to confront it as the attorneys understandably are more interested in hammering the confusing testimony of witnesses. It was Dudus, not the govt who was in control. He was given a copy of the extradition papers and he decided to extradite himself as a means of self preservation. He knows where the bodies are buried. The message from the commission should be to clean up both political parties.
David Armstrong
3/9/2011
What does it say about the the government and the PM when they send the Solicitor General to consult with the MPP lawfirm without consulting with the AG? Is this an indication that they do not trust her or have any confidence in her ability? The AG is the legal representative for the government so you would expect hat the governemnt would consult with her first to see if they have a legal leg to stand on before going to MPP.
Norman Haley
3/9/2011
Ms. Lightbourne is out of her depth as AG she can't even read her E Mail ,in this modern age.Can you imagine the Minister of Justice is not computer literate." God help us if these are our leaders"
T Lester
3/9/2011
Why people keep saying Dorothy lied how sure are you that Leys and Hamilton isn't the ones lying to diminish Dorothy capabilities to let her look bad. Have you ever thought about that or you folks only see orange.
Wa Tch
3/9/2011
Watching Mr. Knight having to extract simple answers from Lightbourne was like being in a dentist's office. The lady was most unhelpful even on unnecessary matters & one is left wondering why. It leaves one with the impression that she & her govt. aren't speaking the truth.
@George Watson It was interesting to compare Mr. George's handling of her with that of Phillips and in my view he did seem to lean in her favour.
Her own handling of the Nembhard case as KD highlighted was very instructive.
Alex Campbell
3/9/2011
If we believe Minister Lightbourne then everyone else is lying. Even Hansard the neutral note taking arm of Parliament would also be lying. Frankly, I believe they were telling the truth and the Minister to me is the one with the credibility problem. The question I want answer "Is that really our Attorney General?" Is that really our Minister of Justice? Jamaica is short change if Dorothy Lightbourne remains as a Cabinet Minister, No wonder she was kept in the dark .Let out the light. RESIGN
Kweli Simba
3/9/2011
It is quite interesting that George Watson continues to negatively label the AG. When truth and fact KD's methods and attitude is indeed antagonistic and discourteous. His patronising comments and condescending remarks would cause any withess to look away from him and address the chair. He has gone beyond playing to the TV to total disrespect for the title of Queen's Counsel. One would hope that we see the activities of the COE witout the political lenses. Dr. Phillips' deneanor was no better.
ESTEBAN AGOSTO REID
3/9/2011
Who is the LIAR ?!! Is it Lightbourne or Leys?!!
george watson
3/9/2011
Haven't we reached a place and time when we should abolish swearing on the bible in our courts to answer questions truthfully?
Dwayne Willis
3/9/2011
IMO atleast 3 former witness has basically said the same thing about the Attorney General and she is saying all 3 of them are lying. I am sorry but I am inclined to beleive that she is the one telling lies.
Its so sad to see the person who is supposedly in charge of Justice in this country showing such scant regard for TRUTH on National TV.
keith edwards
3/9/2011
It has become evident that the commissioners are bent on arriving at the truth the way the JLP wants it to be seen
David Armstrong
3/9/2011
My God it seems like we have a Bra Anancy government here. The government dispatched the Solicitor general to the MPP lawfirm without consulting withe the AG. A government with any common sense would first consult with the AG to find out if they have a legal leg to stand on. Then again I am not surprise that they did this. When you have corrupt and incompetent people you can expect them to do crazy bizarre stuff. Obviously they didn't trust the AG or have any respect for her.
george watson
3/9/2011
Her frequent outburst of mocking laughter, her derision of the attorney and her recurrent refusal to answer questions has made the AG one of the most discourteous and antagonistic witnesses so far.
Mr. Knight, as far as I can see has been very courteous to her, except when he gets frustrated at her refusal to answer, “yes or no” questions, backed up by the chairman. Not so for Dr. Phillips who was directed by the chairman to “answer the questions.”
Ms. Lightbourne refuses even to acknowledge KD’s presence directing her answers to the chairman, who according to him is quite alright.
JA Cynic
3/9/2011
It is very clear that the AG Lightbourne and the SG Leys can no longer work in the same office. The trust has been irreparably damaged and separation in needed.
Lightbourne is not expected to resign. Leys must make his move (or be fired).
Ironically, the PM's original edict: sign and resign may yet come to pass in the much awaited cabinet reshuffle.
JA Cynic
Anthony C
3/9/2011
No wonder our justice system in such a mess,If our SG and our AG are in this tangle over who is lying what should we expect from the ordinary man,I wish when every Jamaican who have a case in the court right now to stand in front of the judge and said I Can't
Recall to each question ask,We may as well turn this system into a I can't recall system since we cannot hear the truth from the leaders themselves.someone is to going to pay at the polls,we shall see.
Chuck Emanuel
3/9/2011
Again, those who Lead, or aspires to Lead our People must be measured by the guiding principles of Integrity, Morality and the Rule of Law.
We as Jamaicans can do much better !. These people has got to go because they are corrupted beyond repair.
george watson
3/9/2011
What is quite evident is that the PM could hardly have done better than Mr. Hugh Small. The man’s achievements and credentials can only be mentioned in superlatives. He is almost unflappable; he is urbane and well respected both inside and outside of the legal profession.
He took silk at an early age and has done quite well at the local bar, he was also a judge in the Supreme Court of the Bahamas and before that a minister of government in Jamaica. He is also fiercely loyal to his clients.
What is also quite apparent as the Enquiry continues is that the PM also did very well in his selection of commissioners.
Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...#ixzz1G8w0GHAG
How can a regime implode so soon and with such flair?? LOLLightbourne accuses Leys of being untruthful
BY PAUL HENRY Crime/Court coordinator henryp@jamaicaobserver.com
Wednesday, March 09, 2011
JUSTICE Minister Dorothy Lightbourne on several occasions yesterday accused Solicitor General Douglas Leys of not being truthful in his evidence to the Commission of Enquiry looking into the Government's handling of the extradition request for former Tivoli Gardens strongman Christopher 'Dudus' Coke.
During her second day under cross-examination it was also suggested that Lightbourne, who is also the country's attorney general, was herself not being truthful when she said that she only learnt that Leys visited the law offices of the American firm Manatt, Phelps and Phillips when it was mentioned by Opposition Member of Parliament Dr Peter Phillips in the House on March 16, 2010.
The Hansard report of that parliamentary sitting that was read did not indicate that Phillips spoke of Leys visiting the firm.
Lightbourne and her Jamaica Labour Party (JLP) colleagues who appeared before the commission were accused by Queen's Counsel KD Knight of trying to frustrate the efforts the commission of finding the truth.
In relation to Leys, Knight — who is representing the Opposition People's National Party — asked: "Mr Leys said that when he came back from the United States, Washington, DC, he told you that an American lawyer had gone to the Department of Justice and sat in on the meeting. Was he telling the truth?"
"No he was not telling the truth," Lightbourne responded.
KD: "Mr Leys said that he told you about the firm Manatt, Phelps and Phillips when he came back from the United States, was he telling the truth?"
"No, he was not telling the truth. He did not tell me," Lightbourne responded.
Asked Knight: "Mr Leys said that he called you from the United States and that in a discussion you gave your permission for an American lawyer to attend the meeting at the Department of Justice. Was he telling the truth?"
"He did call me from the United States; he did tell me about meeting American lawyers; he did not tell me about the lawyer going to that meeting," Lightbourne said, prompting Knight to ask: "Do you have any idea why this person who you knew as a truthful person, so far, would tell these untruth?"
"Mr chairman, Mr Leys had also said in this commission that he did not tell me that," Lightbourne said. But her response drew strong objection from Leys' lawyer Oliver Smith.
"Mr chairman," Smith said "... that is not the evidence. That is not a proper recollection of the evidence."
The meeting being referred to was held on December 17, 2009. The meeting, attended by a delegation including Leys, Deputy Solicitor General Lackston Robinson and the foreign ministry's permanent secretary, Evadne Coye, was decided on after failed talks in the early stages after the request was sent.
Meanwhile, Lightbourne yesterday maintained that she was not informed by the prime minister that a law firm would be hired to assist with lobbying Jamaica's objection to the United States' extradition request of August 25, 2009.
Knight also suggested that Lightbourne was not being truthful when she said that Jamaica Defence Force lawyer Patrick Cole spoke with her on the August 25, 2009 about wanting to meet to discuss the speeding up of Coke's extradition.
She also said that up to September 6, Jamaica was not being stonewalled by the US Government regarding the legal issues concerning the extradition request. Manatt, Phelps and Phillips was hired that same month.
COMMENTS (23)
rag monty
3/9/2011
I wouldnt believe Leys and Hamilton because you dont call someone to tell them of something they have prior knowledge of. If the AG had known about this whole thing the thing to do would be to send memos of the minutes of the meeting rarther than calling every other day. I guess the only new info they could be giving (had she known) would be the state of the male bathrooms at the office.
nervous investor
3/9/2011
Island Patriot - I think that you need to develop a respect for truth. What evidence you could have for your statements must reside in fantasyland. Kd's theatrics and carefully cultivated bad manners would make him more at home in a stage play than in a Court such as this. He should emigrate to Hollywood or Bollywood and seek employment there.
george watson
3/9/2011
My good friend Kweli says I am casting the AG in a negative light and he says it is in fact KD’s methods and attitude which is antagonistic and discourteous.
Listen to this discourse between them both, just after K.D. had wished all women well on WD.
K.D.: “You’re a member of the Senate, correct?
A.G.” That is so Mr. Chairman, I suffer abuse every week.” .
She continued to cast barbs whenever she could.
Kweli goes on to say “One would hope that we see the activities of the COE without the political lenses.” I agree with you Sir, but I hope you would take your own advice.
And why whatever the JLP does have to be patterned after PNP behavior?
Island Patriot
3/9/2011
T Lester, unfortunately, for Ms. Lightbourne, each response she gives for documented occurrences, their is physical evidence provided to the contrary, which only works against her, and steering the general populous towards believing Leys and Hamilton. Since she get catch in a di lie, so way mek mi wouldn't believe Leys and Hamilton den?
Obi Wan
3/9/2011
The AG is acting appropriately. She need not direct her responses to the lawyer because he is not the fact finder; this is the responsibility of the commission. Also the commission is not a court and the AG is not a defendant. The lawyer is therefore rude and discourteous to her and her position to direct her to respond with "Yes/No" answers.
Dwight Barnes
3/9/2011
I was in total amazement as the AG of the country answered the questions that were posed. She is clearly out of her league. Another startling revelation was her adamant stance that Mr. Leys had lied under oath. The AG needs to go along with the PM who appointed her to the seminal post.
mike delisser
3/9/2011
The elephant in the room is how deep the nexus of crime and politics really is. No one seems willing to confront it as the attorneys understandably are more interested in hammering the confusing testimony of witnesses. It was Dudus, not the govt who was in control. He was given a copy of the extradition papers and he decided to extradite himself as a means of self preservation. He knows where the bodies are buried. The message from the commission should be to clean up both political parties.
David Armstrong
3/9/2011
What does it say about the the government and the PM when they send the Solicitor General to consult with the MPP lawfirm without consulting with the AG? Is this an indication that they do not trust her or have any confidence in her ability? The AG is the legal representative for the government so you would expect hat the governemnt would consult with her first to see if they have a legal leg to stand on before going to MPP.
Norman Haley
3/9/2011
Ms. Lightbourne is out of her depth as AG she can't even read her E Mail ,in this modern age.Can you imagine the Minister of Justice is not computer literate." God help us if these are our leaders"
T Lester
3/9/2011
Why people keep saying Dorothy lied how sure are you that Leys and Hamilton isn't the ones lying to diminish Dorothy capabilities to let her look bad. Have you ever thought about that or you folks only see orange.
Wa Tch
3/9/2011
Watching Mr. Knight having to extract simple answers from Lightbourne was like being in a dentist's office. The lady was most unhelpful even on unnecessary matters & one is left wondering why. It leaves one with the impression that she & her govt. aren't speaking the truth.
@George Watson It was interesting to compare Mr. George's handling of her with that of Phillips and in my view he did seem to lean in her favour.
Her own handling of the Nembhard case as KD highlighted was very instructive.
Alex Campbell
3/9/2011
If we believe Minister Lightbourne then everyone else is lying. Even Hansard the neutral note taking arm of Parliament would also be lying. Frankly, I believe they were telling the truth and the Minister to me is the one with the credibility problem. The question I want answer "Is that really our Attorney General?" Is that really our Minister of Justice? Jamaica is short change if Dorothy Lightbourne remains as a Cabinet Minister, No wonder she was kept in the dark .Let out the light. RESIGN
Kweli Simba
3/9/2011
It is quite interesting that George Watson continues to negatively label the AG. When truth and fact KD's methods and attitude is indeed antagonistic and discourteous. His patronising comments and condescending remarks would cause any withess to look away from him and address the chair. He has gone beyond playing to the TV to total disrespect for the title of Queen's Counsel. One would hope that we see the activities of the COE witout the political lenses. Dr. Phillips' deneanor was no better.
ESTEBAN AGOSTO REID
3/9/2011
Who is the LIAR ?!! Is it Lightbourne or Leys?!!
george watson
3/9/2011
Haven't we reached a place and time when we should abolish swearing on the bible in our courts to answer questions truthfully?
Dwayne Willis
3/9/2011
IMO atleast 3 former witness has basically said the same thing about the Attorney General and she is saying all 3 of them are lying. I am sorry but I am inclined to beleive that she is the one telling lies.
Its so sad to see the person who is supposedly in charge of Justice in this country showing such scant regard for TRUTH on National TV.
keith edwards
3/9/2011
It has become evident that the commissioners are bent on arriving at the truth the way the JLP wants it to be seen
David Armstrong
3/9/2011
My God it seems like we have a Bra Anancy government here. The government dispatched the Solicitor general to the MPP lawfirm without consulting withe the AG. A government with any common sense would first consult with the AG to find out if they have a legal leg to stand on. Then again I am not surprise that they did this. When you have corrupt and incompetent people you can expect them to do crazy bizarre stuff. Obviously they didn't trust the AG or have any respect for her.
george watson
3/9/2011
Her frequent outburst of mocking laughter, her derision of the attorney and her recurrent refusal to answer questions has made the AG one of the most discourteous and antagonistic witnesses so far.
Mr. Knight, as far as I can see has been very courteous to her, except when he gets frustrated at her refusal to answer, “yes or no” questions, backed up by the chairman. Not so for Dr. Phillips who was directed by the chairman to “answer the questions.”
Ms. Lightbourne refuses even to acknowledge KD’s presence directing her answers to the chairman, who according to him is quite alright.
JA Cynic
3/9/2011
It is very clear that the AG Lightbourne and the SG Leys can no longer work in the same office. The trust has been irreparably damaged and separation in needed.
Lightbourne is not expected to resign. Leys must make his move (or be fired).
Ironically, the PM's original edict: sign and resign may yet come to pass in the much awaited cabinet reshuffle.
JA Cynic
Anthony C
3/9/2011
No wonder our justice system in such a mess,If our SG and our AG are in this tangle over who is lying what should we expect from the ordinary man,I wish when every Jamaican who have a case in the court right now to stand in front of the judge and said I Can't
Recall to each question ask,We may as well turn this system into a I can't recall system since we cannot hear the truth from the leaders themselves.someone is to going to pay at the polls,we shall see.
Chuck Emanuel
3/9/2011
Again, those who Lead, or aspires to Lead our People must be measured by the guiding principles of Integrity, Morality and the Rule of Law.
We as Jamaicans can do much better !. These people has got to go because they are corrupted beyond repair.
george watson
3/9/2011
What is quite evident is that the PM could hardly have done better than Mr. Hugh Small. The man’s achievements and credentials can only be mentioned in superlatives. He is almost unflappable; he is urbane and well respected both inside and outside of the legal profession.
He took silk at an early age and has done quite well at the local bar, he was also a judge in the Supreme Court of the Bahamas and before that a minister of government in Jamaica. He is also fiercely loyal to his clients.
What is also quite apparent as the Enquiry continues is that the PM also did very well in his selection of commissioners.
Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...#ixzz1G8w0GHAG
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