JA's economic growth to 2015 projected to be 7th slowest

[Assasin]

So crazy people a talk bout they weren't impress with growth under seaga. What is there to be impressed with? Can two years of growth give the whole population or majority of it benefit?

Should we not strive for growth because the rich capitalist investors going to benefit more? How can we compare 30 years of 10% growth of China with our feeble 1% over thirty years? If we had 3% growth over that period then we could have talk. Because Seaga 2 year growth never reach a lot of people we shouldn't go for growth? Omar had 1% growth and said it was his best year as finance minister so imagine 3%.

Jamaica shouldn't be talking about negitive growth and we shouldn't excuse consistently growing GDP by 3% a year. In my book there is no excuse for it. absolutely none.

The same garment industry we called "slavery" was a big part of China's rivial. you think unions can run up and down and behave the way how they behave in Jamaica, down a China? Who are some of the capitalists companies benefitting and partnering with Chinese? Instead of hating they find a way to work with others and are disciplined about this. Everybody talk about the educated Chinese but nobody talk about a big population that is not very educated, nobody talk about the corruption of the Chinese government. Yes with all of that they are making it.

We need to demand more. We need to demand low interest rate. We need to be more investor friendly and encourage small business growth. We have to teach small business entrepeneurship classeses to high school students along with the regular business courses and marketing.

There is a lot we have to do.

[Karl]

Yes we are generally entrepreneurial in an informal, hustler type of way but it does not translate well to running modern, organized businesses.

I do agree that the playing field is not level and has never been, and like you have said in the past our traditional businesses are margin gatherers (to use your term) rather than true entrepreneurs.

We are certainly capable of taking it to the next level but apart from the known obstacles I firmly believe some of it is how we view the world.

mmmmmmmmmm?

How many of our 'large' local businesses are run by locals? ...what of the many who move overseas and found business that are doing well? ...are we really only...in the main...hustler types?

[Don1]

One needs to understand the reality of so called "growth" in the Jamaican context.... the concept of growth is contextual.

In the Jamaican context the "growth" experienced under various JLP regimes has resulted in increased profits/consumption by elites & the middle class and greater relative misery of disadvantaged classes.... a counter-intuitive phenomenon. The rising tide lifts only a relatively few boats.

This phenomenon of accelerating "growth" in the formal economy (ie that part of the economy that is registered and statistics can be gathered from) concurrent with increased relative misery with the majority poor,occurs because the society is structurally dysfunctional and the elite classes siphon off most of the benefits...ie not enough econ benefits trickle down to the masses to be effective in development or poverty alleviation.

It does not mean that "growth" IS bad...it means that to take better advantage of such growth the society has to undergo socio-economic reform.... that reform is the imperative of this generation...NOT this myopic search for so called "growth". Reform is necessary before meaningful growth and development can be achieved.

China for example was only able to grow after fundamental reforms took place when Mao & Chou-en-Lai died... the old guard was pushed aside and younger reformers came to the fore.

We have also seen that despite the abysmal "growth" under the PNP regimes over 18 years...poverty levels have been slashed in half.... another counter-intuitive phenomenon....how is that explained?

People need to stop the glib talk about growth and drill down deeper to what it means on the ground in the Jamaican context.

Jamaica defies standard economic analysis & methodologies...so orthodox IMF type/Republican style policies have very limited impact over time.

That is our paradox.

It seems to be too hard a concept for many to conceive.

[Mosiah]

Smokescreen!

LOL!

[Don1]

Smokescreen!

LOL!

[Jawge]

No ah nuh dat she waan hear. She waan hear seh Joshua did mash up JA. It's a fact that the only positives in terms of health care,education, roads and other social reforms happened in the 70s under Joshua. A certain class was glad to have Joshua removed in order for Ja to return to its colonial and slavery ways.

You now hear that crime is down, the dollar is appreciating and 1.5 billion (I wonder if people really grasp this figure) has been spent by tourists in a six month period. In short many are saying that Ja is growing and back on track (the truth is Ja is borrowing left, right and centre . Ja has no human capital to take advantage of the new global economy. If you try planter class can easily take it away from you)

Ja needs some serious reform. The arithmethic is simple: 2.8 mil and fourteen parishes, most of the population is concentrated in Kgn, yet some teenagers are still not getting seconadary education (they still have all age schools) There should be a law that says all students should attend high schools. One can then work on the quality of tertiary education. Joshua really cared; he was way ahead of his time.

[Assasin]

The growth by the PNP can be easily explained. It means Jamaica suffer and somebody pay in the long run as it was "who's money we going to spend next".

The growth in 2 years is nothing in the context of 20 or 30 years. If China only had 2 years of growth we would be talking about nothing here now.

One thing I agree on is that many of the old guard and even some of the youngsters have to step aside.

The fact that PNP was running a model that no country could support, not in the short or long term.

The fact is growth have to be constant and must be talked about and demanded. Growth should not be bad or be assocated with Seaga or the JLP. We should be shouldn't be acting as if growth is bad. If you name all the program under the PNP in the last 18 years only the Telecom and Hotel programs were wealth creating and nothing else, Path, and all you are going to tell me about don't make the country any richer, they are all on borrowed money.

Along with these program the goverment have encourage more revenue generating income or we are pushing ourselves deeper into problem my friend.

[Assasin]

also Path and these programs can't be described as success. I support giving to the youngsters and the elders but we have to find a way to provide jobs for the people who are eligible to work so they can pay into the system to make it better.

put it this way, 3 percent growth is better than no growth. Even trickle down growth is better than no growth and decent growth over longer period will eventually lead for a better lifestyle for most Jamaicans. Imagine China GDP grow by 100 percent almost every 8 years and we talking about 1 percent growth over that period or actally negitive growth.
Even Haiti can be talking about growth(WOW).

Audley Shaw better find ways for growth over the next year otherwise he is just another gatekeeper.

[Don1]

Missing the point as usual..

I am not here to defend any party or their record...merely to opine on the preoccupation of many...you included...with the flawed concept of growth by saying what I see that happened under their governance.

History has shown that with the dysfunctional system Jamaica operates..even if the growth people hanker after occurs...the country does not move forward or develop sufficiently for the reasons I already explained.

If that is the case ... to me it is ridiculous to continue to pine after this specious growth concept...when it will lead to ultimate failure....ie growth without human development... growth experienced by a relative few...leading to more social tensions including crime.

The imperative of the day must be reform....when reform is done correctly (imho) by being designed by all important national groups...including representatives of the disenfranchised sitting at the same table as big shots... ie a Social Contract...then Jamaica has a chance at real progress...not this so called growth on a rotten foundation...which will soon tumble.
After reform...growth will be a breeze...it will occur organically.

By now Jamaicans should realize that if we merely repeat the folly of the JLPNP/big business past & present...we are doomed to achieve the same pathetic results.

Mi nah guh inna nuh lang talk wid yuh pon dis again.... yuh cyan gwaan chasing myopic dreams of "growth".... and expect progress when Jamaican history teaches otherwise. What holds Jamaica back is...Jamaicans. Those who are in the elite politico-economic leadership class.

Good luck wid yuh growth search.. wen unnu fine it unnu sure fi be disappointed

[Mosiah]

also Path and these programs can't be described as success. I support giving to the youngsters and the elders but we have to find a way to provide jobs for the people who are eligible to work so they can pay into the system to make it better.

put it this way, 3 percent growth is better than no growth. Even trickle down growth is better than no growth and decent growth over longer period will eventually lead for a better lifestyle for most Jamaicans. Imagine China GDP grow by 100 percent almost every 8 years and we talking about 1 percent growth over that period or actally negitive growth.
Even Haiti can be talking about growth(WOW).

Audley Shaw better find ways for growth over the next year otherwise he is just another gatekeeper.

100% growth for China, huh! And how many years of growth under Omar?

At least be honest. Doesn't help your point when you get brucegoldious about it.

[Assasin]

Mo the average growth under Omar is under 1% annually. I don't have to lie about anything here, it is in writing and the stats speak for itself.

For the 18 years the PNP in office they the highest growth they had is 1.8% and only 1 year. The rest was between 1 and -.

[Lazie]

Mo the average growth under Omar is under 1% annually. I don't have to lie about anything here, it is in writing and the stats speak for itself.

For the 18 years the PNP in office they the highest growth they had is 1.8% and only 1 year. The rest was between 1 and -.

Yuh really expect to convince the flat earthers about reality? Yuh have a better chance of walking on water.

[Mosiah]

did the PNP have more than two years of positive growth? that's all i am asking.

thanks!

[Assasin]

depends on if you call .03 or .04 growth. The record of the PNP over the last 18 years is pathetic in any country, any language when it comes to economic growth.

If you are talking "real growth" which include inflation, they had NONE.

[Lazie]

did the PNP have more than two years of positive growth? that's all i am asking.

thanks!

Stop trying to sugar coat failure.

"Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent."