JA's economic growth to 2015 projected to be 7th slowest

[Karl]

Lets see, check and see out of that 30 years how much of it the party yuh pushing to return to power was in charge? Throwing up smokescreens and calling others tribalist don't change the facts. Jamaica have 2 political parties, one always mess up (mess being the politically correct term I could use right now) the economy yet unuh have this undying love for them, and the other affi always fix it back, but unuh continuously hate dem. Yet you have the nerve to call others tribalist? Get real bredren.

Guess you are not a tribalist here

Your

one always mess up

must mean whichever party holds the reigns on balance always messes up...right?

Surely there is no way you would be claiming our paltry economic progress is due to the PNP only?

[Islandman]

Yes but nontheless we do have a culture that tends to view profits and capital formation as a less than moral activity.

If you make your money playing sports or creating music, we love that. but if you make it through traditional business your wealth is viewed as suspect, ie ripping off the poor in some way.

It comes back to education. Most people believe consciously or subconsciously that wealth is a zero-sum game, ie for one to be richer someone else must be poorer. Some of that is because of our experience historically, but we have to get past that and understand that the pie is not fixed, and the role of govt is not to re-distribute the pie but to allow the pie to grow.

[Don1]

You saw that a new paragraph started after I said "As mi say ... stick with facts."

Clearly this is the end of the road for you! Good try.

Nope...but it may be the end of the road for the regime as their own corruption engulfs them and destroys whatever credibility they had.

Fact

[ReggaeMike]

Not significant enough I think. Problems stem all the way back to the 1960s not just 1980. Having increasing economic growth with increasing unemployment in the 1960s was never going to be sustainable. However neither party seemed to have the sense to actually correct the situation and since then the economy has either been slumping, stagnant or growing anaemically under the auspices of the IMF. Neither party could really be credited for whatever little growth has ever been achieved since the independence.

[Don1]

Yes but nontheless we do have a culture that tends to view profits and capital formation as a less than moral activity.

I disagree... Jamaicans are congenitally entrepreneurial... everyone wants to "try a ting" pon di side... and become rich or able to better themselves. The low cultural level does create jealousy of comparatively wealthy people... but it's about "that should be me not you"
It's not imho about the fact of wealth accumulation as a concept being evil.

What spoils the broth is the class & power structure imposed on the majority & maintained & directed from above... if the society was more egalitarian...through freeing up education...we would have less social tensions from below & above.

That it is not so is mainly the fault of the JLPNP/big business power nexus

If you make your money playing sports or creating music, we love that. but if you make it through traditional business your wealth is viewed as suspect, ie ripping off the poor in some way.

Agreed...that's because sportspeople and the players of music mainly spring from the mass of the people and people know that their success is based on "merit" (even if they DJ fooliniss).. it's a meritocracy

People believe with a certain element of truth that the "traditional business sector" is totally gamed to limit the rise of small businesses...first through the poor education and then limiting "contacts" to good bankable opportunities...then starvation from capital.

The system IS gamed... therefore dysfunctional... and nuff people are alienated from it....It's a modern day plantocracy.

It comes back to education. Most people believe consciously or subconsciously that wealth is a zero-sum game, ie for one to be richer someone else must be poorer. Some of that is because of our experience historically, but we have to get past that and understand that the pie is not fixed, and the role of govt is not to re-distribute the pie but to allow the pie to grow.

I agree...but unfortunately we have fools for leaders... and sheep for followers

[Mosiah]

good analysis!

[Islandman]

I disagree... Jamaicans are congenitally entrepreneurial... everyone wants to "try a ting" pon di side... and become rich or able to better themselves. The low cultural level does create jealousy of comparatively wealthy people... but it's about "that should be me not you"
It's not imho about the fact of wealth accumulation as a concept being evil.

Yes we are generally entrepreneurial in an informal, hustler type of way but it does not translate well to running modern, organized businesses.

I do agree that the playing field is not level and has never been, and like you have said in the past our traditional businesses are margin gatherers (to use your term) rather than true entrepreneurs.

We are certainly capable of taking it to the next level but apart from the known obstacles I firmly believe some of it is how we view the world.

[Rudi]

I disagree... Jamaicans are congenitally entrepreneurial... everyone wants to "try a ting" pon di side... and become rich or able to better themselves. The low cultural level does create jealousy of comparatively wealthy people... but it's about "that should be me not you"
It's not imho about the fact of wealth accumulation as a concept being evil.

What spoils the broth is the class & power structure imposed on the majority & maintained & directed from above... if the society was more egalitarian...through freeing up education...we would have less social tensions from below & above.

That it is not so is mainly the fault of the JLPNP/big business power nexus



Agreed...that's because sportspeople and the players of music mainly spring from the mass of the people and people know that their success is based on "merit" (even if they DJ fooliniss).. it's a meritocracy

People believe with a certain element of truth that the "traditional business sector" is totally gamed to limit the rise of small businesses...first through the poor education and then limiting "contacts" to good bankable opportunities...then starvation from capital.

The system IS gamed... therefore dysfunctional... and nuff people are alienated from it....It's a modern day plantocracy.



I agree...but unfortunately we have fools for leaders... and sheep for followers

Archive this ####$$ ********************. Should be required reading for Letterhead and Muadlin every morning. They keep talking about growth in the sixties which even the supposed architect(Seaga) was not impressed with. It would seem that none of his promoters have actually read his two autobiographies. Don't be embarrassed Don but you and the Day Walker as you call him have pretty much the same opinion of the private sector. Time is always the master.

[Don1]

The JLP's trickle down 60s style/Republican type policies nah werk inna Jamaica...

neither does the PNP's incompetent adventurism...

Jamaica between the devil & the deep blue sea..

Where is the paradigm shift to come from?

[Don1]

ok boss... no worries wid dat

[Don1]

. Don't be embarrassed Don but you and the Day Walker as you call him have pretty much the same opinion of the private sector. Time is always the master.

Faada elp mi!!!

[MissLondon]

Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent.

Wow that whole article was depressing, but jesus the above stat is disgraceful!

What is the real reason Jamaica cannot achieve economic growth? Many other countries have corrupt and incompetent governments.

Has Jamaica ever experienced a period of strong economic growth, and under what conditions?

[Islandman]

There was pretty strong growth in the 1960s, upwards of 5% GDP.

Unfortunately the majority of the citizens did not reap any benefits from that growth, and there was a feeling of growing social injustice.

That was supposed to all be corrrected in 1972 when a new PM named Micael Manley with a populist message promised that better must come. What was expected from him was something similar to what Lula has done in Brazil over the last decade, he had a similar kind of personality and world view but in the 1970s, Cold War period which made a big difference.

He did make some meaningful changes to Jamaicas laws and helped to positively change our sense of who we are as a people in his early years but his economic policies from 1974-80 mostly failed and we have never really recovered from that.

[Lazie]

Wow that whole article was depressing, but jesus the above stat is disgraceful!

What is the real reason Jamaica cannot achieve economic growth? Many other countries have corrupt and incompetent governments.

Has Jamaica ever experienced a period of strong economic growth, and under what conditions?

I-Man mussi fraid a di backlash mek him stop. After Manley was removed it took the hated Seaga 6 years to clean up Manley's mess. 86 & 87 there was growth of more than 5%, there was even a budget surplus ... yeah that existed one time. Then came Gilbert and then Seaga was removed.

The flat earthers round here will provide all kinds of anancy stories as to why the gov't then could do 'the impossible', but at the end of the day the numbers never lie. Then again, those same jokers have a tendency to walk far from the facts.

[Willi]

Tru talk.