Terrible Subsurface Construction

[Islandman]

Wha you say, him is a closet believer? LOL

[Gamma]

oh?

[Mosiah]

yuh name Kartel?

[Assasin]

I am no expert but based on what I see it is not that the experts are not in Jamaica. The fact is some of the roads that were build 3 and 40 years ago are still some of the better roads. I remember PWD build some roads and some of them are still around. One of the major problem is the parish council and the government choose not to clean the drains around these roads and the roads turn into a water way.

I think major problem with road construction in Jamaica is corruption. Most of the people who get the contracts are political croonies who have no idea how to do the job and have no interest but the money. They are not supervised.

Look at the new road in Port Maria that is build by Phil and Son(sp) they build the bridge low and when it rain it flood the town. So they also make mistakes as well.

Another thing is the Chinese don't take on any big project in the third world without putting their people to work there will be some on this project too. The most important thing is that we build the roads good and maintain them so they will last.

Remember we a talk a lot of secondary roads here not 6 lane hiways.

[HL]

Your last sentence 'ssasin...bout the Chinese.

The Chinese are on their way to fully controling the economic base of Jamaica.

What's going to be extremely funny is when it happens...some of the very brilliant Jamaicans will be spinning around wondering...how did we allow this to happen?

[Karl]

There you go!

[Assasin]

yes they are on their way. The fact is we do it to ourselves.

You have fi learn that we giving away everything.
When last you see who own all a the inbond stores(Indians coming via England)
A few years ago I went downtown to buy some stuff down near where the craft market was and the jewellery was control by some freshly land Chinese.

HL we sit down while others take over. See I post an article about Geejam not borrowing locally? The banks killing themselves as these people not borrowing locally because interest rate too high, so too Island outpost a so we kill ourselves.

You ever wonder why Ackee a sell fi 12 dollars a the Jamaican store and 7.99 at the international food market?

You wonder why Jamaican Soda a sell for 1.50 a the supermarket and all 3 dollars a the Jamaican store.
The fact is that we think people have to buy at our price even when it is not competitive.

You notice is since the recession a lot of tourist a go a Jamaica? The faxt is you can get a reasonable price room compared to DR and Mexico before some of them was way overpriced but them nuh see that. The hotels better learn to operate within cost.

[Mosiah]

Your last sentence 'ssasin...bout the Chinese.

The Chinese are on their way to fully controling the economic base of Jamaica.

What's going to be extremely funny is when it happens...some of the very brilliant Jamaicans will be spinning around wondering...how did we allow this to happen?

only the foolish will be spinning. the rest know how it happen.

[Peter R]

The way I see it is the water commission dig up the road to lay some pipe ...when dem done dem ongle paper over de channel dem dig which couldn't stand up to de run off...which also stems from lack of proper drainage... but anyhow a big rain or storm or hurricane wouda wash weh any road whe ongle get paper over... what say you Messrs. Engineers?

[Mosiah]

Perhaps the drainage wasn't adequate but we can't be sure about that just from this pic. The water will eventually choose the easier passage and if that happens to be the part where the NWC people dem paper over, then this is what you get.

So, not mekking excuses for our engineers, but this might not be the best example to show their incompetence.

And you are right. The kinds of rains we get in the West Indies, mi never see rain fall like dat in NY! If it torrential enough, I don't care where yuh is, di road might get wash whey yes!

[Bricktop]

[MdmeX]

Tek di people tax money buy Escalade...gad nah sleep enuh...

Yuh gwine get BANISHED!

[Sickko]

Who a boss?

[Hortical]

Star mi naw criticize contractors as a group in Ja, just the road builders.
My personal observation is that we need better oversight of road contractors, mi don't even know if there are required specs when it comes to construction, since anything seems to gwaan.

Anyway this is the basics from Maine, and a lot State highway departments must have required specs that the contractors must follow when it comes to taxpayer funded projects and they have inspectors that routinely check on the quality of the pavement.

Just the basics from Maine.......
Effective drainage is critical to road longevity and stability. Good drainage requires removing runoff from the road surface and preventing groundwater from infiltrating the road base. These two distinct drainage problems require an understanding of the difference between surface water
and groundwater.

Surface Water
Surface water is water that is flowing or standing on the top of the ground. On gravel roads, the biggest concern is to get water off the road surface as quickly as possible and to direct it to a natural or constructed drainage channel that is capable of handling the flow without eroding.
When surface water is not drained off the road, it can lead to washouts, muddy conditions, and potholes.

The following measures are used to help drain water off the road surface:
· a well-constructed road with proper crowning and grading;
· stable road ditches;
· diversions (e.g., water bars); and
· turnouts and buffers that return runoff as sheet flow to natural drainage areas, but well away from any surface waterbodies.
Any road (even properly constructed ones) will alter the natural surface water drainage pattern.
The trick is to recognize these changes and to prevent them from causing problems.

Groundwater
Groundwater (subsurface water) flows and is stored under the earth's surface. With roads, the biggest concern is to keep groundwater out of the road base. Groundwater in the road base will make it soft (potentially impassable) and susceptible to tire rutting. Ideally, subsurface water
should be drained from the road base and directed to a natural or constructed channel capable of handling the flow without eroding. Types of subsurface drainage include:
· Stable ditches that are dug sufficiently deep (below the water table) to drain water from
the road base
· A well-constructed road foundation of coarse soil materials (i.e., sand and gravel with few
fines to allow subsurface water to drain efficiently).
· And subsurface drains of either pervious (slotted) pipe or permeable soil material.

SPECIFICATIONS
Road Material
The specific composition of soil materials used in road construction will make a big difference in terms of performance and durability. Good road material should contain portions of the three basic types of soil that have specific properties that make it best for different aspects of road
building: gravel, sand, and fines (silts and clays which are generally comprised of particles too small for the eye to see). Gravel is very durable and drains freely. Sand also drains efficiently.
Fines pack and bind well, helping shed water as they do not drain well.
Some general guidelines are as follows.
Road base material needs to be sturdy and drain freely. The gravel must be somewhat coarser than the road surface material (3”-4” maximum particle size); and have 0 to 7 percent fines (to subsurface drainage). The base layer should be 18 inches or thicker.

MAINE EROSION AND SEDIMENT CONTROL BMP – 3/2003 SECTION H-1-2
Road surface material needs to pack well, be durable, and shed water. It should have gravel with a maximum particle size of 2 inches (for a smooth ride) and 7 to 12 percent fines (to pack well and shed water). The surface layer should be about 4 to 6 inches thick. Loose surface material generally indicates a lack of fines. Soft roads are generally indicative of too many fines
in the base material, or a base layer that is not thick enough to support the road.

[HL]

...and is not like say they are inventing the wheel.

Some of these standards require slight modifications to fit the environment that they are being used. But for the most part the standards are fully applicable.

Very good submission. I am sure Mosiah photocopy eet.