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Why I support PNP's abstention for an extension of the SoE

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  • Why I support PNP's abstention for an extension of the SoE

    1. The state of emergency was never called to fight crime when announced in May of this year. It was simply needed to take back the country from the insurgents supporting Dudus. Let us not forget who was his biggest supporter.

    2. The security forces had initially requested a 90 day SoE. The govt. for reasons some may argue were valid, agreed to only one month.

    3. Once the SoE got going, the police realised it was an opportunity to go after gunmen in Tivoli and the wider Jamaica. It’s my opinion, given Golding’s history, that the PM merely went along for the ride. He was being pushed by forces that were calling for his resignation on account of his despicable behaviour over the last few months.

    4. There were numerous accounts of abuse by the security forces in that first month of the SoE. Keith Clarke’s brutal murder, an incident some are trying to paint as collateral damage, and something that he himself may have brought up on himself, comes quickly to mind, because this was not supposed to happen to uptown people. The abuses downtown were several times worse.

    5. The security forces on July 19, 2010 asked parliament to grant them another 30 days. The govt sought approval from parliament for the 30 days. The PNP requested information on the previous two SoE, the successes, the problems, whatever.

    6. Such information was not provided by the govt. One f the reasons given was the request for the 30 day extension was only just made and so there was no time to retrieve the information requested. Perhaps the security forces could have been a bit more responsible and make requests of such national importance much earlier in the future.

    7. The PNP had sought such clarifications partly because two of Jamaica’s most prominent human rights activists, Dr. Carolyn Gomes and Yvonne McCalla-Sobers had begun to express some serious problems with the SoE. I believe they both called for an end to the SoE.

    8. In light of these problems (see today’s papers for even more concerns by Jamaicans on the SoE), the opposition suggested a 15-day extension, during which time, the govt could back with valid reasons, other than a simple request, for an extension of the SoE. After such time, armed with information to make an informed decision, the addition 15 days could be granted.

    9. The govt. flat out rejected it. It was 30 days or nothing. That was what the security forces requested, that is what we should give them. Since when does parliament simply rubber-stamp the request of our security forces? Further, if that be the case, then why wasn’t the original 90-day request not rubber-stamped from the very beginning?

    10. The govt.’s rejection of anything but the 30 days is like arguing in court that a dangerous serial killer should either get the death sentence and not life imprisonment as may have been argued by some jurists. So, the judge decides, If he does not get the death sentence, then set him free.

    11. To date, I have not heard one sensible response from any govt.
    minister (or anyone else for that matter) as to why the initial 15 days could not be accommodated, with the possibility of another 15 days, since the SoE was such an important element in the new war against the country’s worst criminals. If someone has heard even one half-decent response to that suggestion, please share.

    12. The govt. now says it will implement a new crime strategy, having failed in their bid to extend the SoE. I cannot wait to see what this is about because I doubt very much we needed to have waited so long for this crime plan and I doubt very much we need a SoE for that plan.

    13. Only a few people have stopped to consider that maybe the drastic drop in crime could be attributed to the destruction of the nation’s largest and politically-protected enclave of Tivoli Gardens. It is widely believed that many of the guns in the country had entered through that community via the port that was widely believed to have been controlled by elements in West Kingston.

    14. I am of the belief that, despite the appearance that the security forces were now in complete control during the SoE, no longer taking instructions or being hindered by our politicians, I am of the belief that there was still some interference. There is no bigger person of interest than the Prime Minister himself. We need not rehash the details there.

    15. It must be remembered that several studies and reports that all have agreed should be implemented in order to combat crime have been ignored for years, by the two political parties. Many of the points in those reports are still not being addressed. Do your own research on these papers.

    16. As someone stated in a letter to the Gleaner today: http://mobile.jamaica-gleaner.com/gl...s/letters2.php. In particular, please make note of the writer’s view, of which I share: “But let us not ignore the fact that they could have been doing this all along if the politicians had decided before now that would support rather than obstruct the course of justice.”


    I shall respond to sensible responses only. Maybe I can join you on another thread then, MissLondon, Lazie and Maudib.


    BLACK LIVES MATTER

  • #2
    There is one major reason to extend it.
    The cut in the murder rate.

    There are all paper reason. For the first time in about 13 years murder has dropped for two months drastically and the police who are the crime fighters asked for a further 30 days because they think they are doing their work effectively.

    When did these people start listen to Dr.Gomes etc?
    • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Assasin View Post
      There is one major reason to extend it.
      The cut in the murder rate.
      Then why not agree to the 15 days with the posibility of another 15. The murder rate not dat bad? Is the drop in the murder rate the only reason why it should be extended, no matter what else may be happening?

      Originally posted by Assasin View Post
      When did these people start listen to Dr.Gomes etc?
      Who is these people? If the govt. ignored Dr. Gomes in the past, that is reason to continue to ignore her in the future?!?

      Not sure this one qualifies as a "sensible post". Come better next time, Sass!


      BLACK LIVES MATTER

      Comment


      • #4
        State Of Emergency Worrying
        Published: Sunday | July 4, 20105 Comments and 0 Reactions

        Samuels
        Gary Spaulding, Senior Gleaner Writer

        THE CONDITIONS in which detainees are being held under the provisions of the state of emergency and the limited powers accorded to the oversight body established to hear appeals have sent worrying signals to some panellists at a recently held Gleaner Editors' Forum.

        "We need to do some investigations on the conditions in the current holding cells," executive member of Jamaicans for Justice (JFJ), Susan Goffe, told the Editors' Forum last Friday.

        "We are getting some reports of horrendous conditions reminiscent of Agana Barrett," Goffe charged.

        http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/glean...ews/news1.html


        BLACK LIVES MATTER

        Comment


        • #5
          First is why accept a 15 days when the security force made it clear they wanted 30 more and was producing the results? Why 15 days and vote again? because that is what the opposition wanted?

          The drop in the murder rate and the fact that they could detain so many known criminals made it a clear choice for the extention.

          The fact is Dr.Gomes name is only on this for political reasons and not because the PNP listen to a word she says. Now of them pay her any serious attention. Look from when she a fight numerous cases, has the PNP ever supported her in one?
          • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
            1. The state of emergency was never called to fight crime when announced in May of this year. It was simply needed to take back the country from the insurgents supporting Dudus. Let us not forget who was his biggest supporter.

            2. The security forces had initially requested a 90 day SoE. The govt. for reasons some may argue were valid, agreed to only one month.

            3. Once the SoE got going, the police realised it was an opportunity to go after gunmen in Tivoli and the wider Jamaica. It’s my opinion, given Golding’s history, that the PM merely went along for the ride. He was being pushed by forces that were calling for his resignation on account of his despicable behaviour over the last few months.

            4. There were numerous accounts of abuse by the security forces in that first month of the SoE. Keith Clarke’s brutal murder, an incident some are trying to paint as collateral damage, and something that he himself may have brought up on himself, comes quickly to mind, because this was not supposed to happen to uptown people. The abuses downtown were several times worse.

            5. The security forces on July 19, 2010 asked parliament to grant them another 30 days. The govt sought approval from parliament for the 30 days. The PNP requested information on the previous two SoE, the successes, the problems, whatever.

            6. Such information was not provided by the govt. One f the reasons given was the request for the 30 day extension was only just made and so there was no time to retrieve the information requested. Perhaps the security forces could have been a bit more responsible and make requests of such national importance much earlier in the future.

            7. The PNP had sought such clarifications partly because two of Jamaica’s most prominent human rights activists, Dr. Carolyn Gomes and Yvonne McCalla-Sobers had begun to express some serious problems with the SoE. I believe they both called for an end to the SoE.

            8. In light of these problems (see today’s papers for even more concerns by Jamaicans on the SoE), the opposition suggested a 15-day extension, during which time, the govt could back with valid reasons, other than a simple request, for an extension of the SoE. After such time, armed with information to make an informed decision, the addition 15 days could be granted.

            9. The govt. flat out rejected it. It was 30 days or nothing. That was what the security forces requested, that is what we should give them. Since when does parliament simply rubber-stamp the request of our security forces? Further, if that be the case, then why wasn’t the original 90-day request not rubber-stamped from the very beginning?

            10. The govt.’s rejection of anything but the 30 days is like arguing in court that a dangerous serial killer should either get the death sentence and not life imprisonment as may have been argued by some jurists. So, the judge decides, If he does not get the death sentence, then set him free.

            11. To date, I have not heard one sensible response from any govt.
            minister (or anyone else for that matter) as to why the initial 15 days could not be accommodated, with the possibility of another 15 days, since the SoE was such an important element in the new war against the country’s worst criminals. If someone has heard even one half-decent response to that suggestion, please share.

            12. The govt. now says it will implement a new crime strategy, having failed in their bid to extend the SoE. I cannot wait to see what this is about because I doubt very much we needed to have waited so long for this crime plan and I doubt very much we need a SoE for that plan.

            13. Only a few people have stopped to consider that maybe the drastic drop in crime could be attributed to the destruction of the nation’s largest and politically-protected enclave of Tivoli Gardens. It is widely believed that many of the guns in the country had entered through that community via the port that was widely believed to have been controlled by elements in West Kingston.

            14. I am of the belief that, despite the appearance that the security forces were now in complete control during the SoE, no longer taking instructions or being hindered by our politicians, I am of the belief that there was still some interference. There is no bigger person of interest than the Prime Minister himself. We need not rehash the details there.

            15. It must be remembered that several studies and reports that all have agreed should be implemented in order to combat crime have been ignored for years, by the two political parties. Many of the points in those reports are still not being addressed. Do your own research on these papers.

            16. As someone stated in a letter to the Gleaner today: http://mobile.jamaica-gleaner.com/gl...s/letters2.php. In particular, please make note of the writer’s view, of which I share: “But let us not ignore the fact that they could have been doing this all along if the politicians had decided before now that would support rather than obstruct the course of justice.”


            I shall respond to sensible responses only. Maybe I can join you on another thread then, MissLondon, Lazie and Maudib.
            Hail Up Mo
            How you come to NYC and don't even bun I a link ?

            Comment


            • #7
              I was there for maybe 4 hour, in the hottest temperatures ever! I was simply transferring really from JFK to LGA, so really no time to link anyone.

              Yuh good doh?


              BLACK LIVES MATTER

              Comment


              • #8
                1. The state of emergency was never called to fight crime when announced in May of this year. It was simply needed to take back the country from the insurgents supporting Dudus. Let us not forget who was his biggest supporter.

                Who cares why it was called? An SoE should have been called from 07, better late than never.


                2. The security forces had initially requested a 90 day SoE. The govt. for reasons some may argue were valid, agreed to only one month.

                Agreed to 30 days at the end of which an evaluation would be done. How does this support your support of a ridiculous stance?

                3. Once the SoE got going, the police realised it was an opportunity to go after gunmen in Tivoli and the wider Jamaica. It’s my opinion, given Golding’s history, that the PM merely went along for the ride. He was being pushed by forces that were calling for his resignation on account of his despicable behaviour over the last few months.

                For you this seems to be about Golding. What about the support of the forces?

                4. There were numerous accounts of abuse by the security forces in that first month of the SoE. Keith Clarke’s brutal murder, an incident some are trying to paint as collateral damage, and something that he himself may have brought up on himself, comes quickly to mind, because this was not supposed to happen to uptown people. The abuses downtown were several times worse.

                If abuses were taking place as I think there were, they should have been addressed. Why give up a means that was assisting law enforcement?

                5. The security forces on July 19, 2010 asked parliament to grant them another 30 days. The govt sought approval from parliament for the 30 days. The PNP requested information on the previous two SoE, the successes, the problems, whatever.

                The amount of people being murdered wasn't sufficient information? All they want to do is talk, where has that put us?

                6. Such information was not provided by the govt. One f the reasons given was the request for the 30 day extension was only just made and so there was no time to retrieve the information requested. Perhaps the security forces could have been a bit more responsible and make requests of such national importance much earlier in the future.

                Oh, so instead of dealing with the matter at hand as they were elected to do, they sat on the fence?

                bottomline bredren ... your ppl focked up and all of you searching for a means to put a good spin on it.
                "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
                  I was there for maybe 4 hour, in the hottest temperatures ever! I was simply transferring really from JFK to LGA, so really no time to link anyone.

                  Yuh good doh?
                  No feel no way I was in Jamdown for a couple days in January to see how much Liquor and go go girls I could comsume in 72 hours so I had no time to call anyone either.
                  Live is good, new son and new job.

                  Should be back in JA in a few months will definatly link.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good to see all is well! Hail up wifey fi mi.


                    BLACK LIVES MATTER

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Very reasonable position.

                      I still think because of the historic chance to get on top of the crime situation.... thankfully provided by Gelding's imbecilic behaviour.... that the SOE should be extended

                      If the JLPNP were cooperating in a truly national effort to mange this situation we would have some needed consensus. Instead the JLP tries to instruct without prior consultation or even information to the other side...and the PNP moves to oppose...for the sake of oneupmanship.

                      Neither tribe has an honour..... although their supporters will bleat otherwise

                      Jamaica wi seh...tribe dem cyan guhwhey
                      TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                      Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                      D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't see recommending 15 days with the possibility of another 15 as "opposing for the sake of oneupmanship". Parliament has a duty to protect the citizens of Jamaica. Such protection is not simply the granting of an SoE just because it is requested by the security forces.

                        I too would like to see it extended, but only having examined all, not just the drop in crime, but the efectiveness of mass round-ups of ghetto youth, while the country's most important person of interest still has the nerve to show his lying, hypocritical face on my tv last night!


                        BLACK LIVES MATTER

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
                          I don't see recommending 15 days with the possibility of another 15 as "opposing for the sake of oneupmanship". Parliament has a duty to protect the citizens of Jamaica. Such protection is not simply the granting of an SoE just because it is requested by the security forces.

                          I too would like to see it extended, but only having examined all, not just the drop in crime, but the efectiveness of mass round-ups of ghetto youth, while the country's most important person of interest still has the nerve to show his lying, hypocritical face on my tv last night!
                          understood...
                          TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                          Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                          D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            after mi read yuh number one reason, mi stop cause mi nuh like read foolishness.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              State of Emergency request for Clarendon has to be for 30 days.. so says the constitution.

                              No point having an extension for 15 days in Kingston and St. Catherine.

                              PNP need to stap di pretense and follow di advise of the Strategic High Command.

                              What is the relevance of a 15 day 'trial' period in any case ? Wheh dem pull dat number from ? Based on what ?

                              PNP is carrying out their Nightmare promise.. nothing more.

                              Comment

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