Mi Finally find it: yes massive

[Don1]

This is so entertaining. Good find.

Manley had good ideas but was a poor tactical/strategic thinker.

Kissinger is the BEAST (Cheney is the modern equivalent), you caan tek him on head on suh. Much more ringcraft was needed. Manley's hubris was based on what exactly?

Manley needed to cement the social cohesion in Jamaica first and then move the whole ship of State as a cohesive unit. He should have been busy forging OPPORTUNITY for the masses, not playing redistributive, populist, doomed to end badly, poorly thought out policies.

Instead of teaching people to fish, he was busy running boat with the already fried/scubbish fish with bammy and festival. When the barrel get empty, what then? Him run to TnT and others and now dem all have taken steps with us.

He put in place important social legislation and a few fwd thinking policies like free universal education (even Edwin Allen shook his hand for that) and Jamal. If he had combined that with other opportunities for people to lift themselves up with self-sustaining ventures and public/private partnerships, while selling the whole idea to ALL Jamaicans cloaked in heavy nationalistic PRIDE messages, we would be light years ahead of where we are now.

This is true, Manley was extremely naive and over-reached...steppin' on Babylon toes too hard (Mo whey yuh deh?) ...but there are other elements he completely misled himself on:

1. The extent Seaga The Daywalker would go to in working with the CIA to destabilize the country

2. The utter selfishness and unsophistication of the elites and elements in the middle class (they're not much different today) ...seeing his rhetoric as communism...really nonsense. People fi fool but nuh suh

At a minimum after the 76 election he should have realized his course was not sustainable and moderated...instead of intensifying the rhetoric...should have sidelined the hard core like DK.

Dollyhouse mash up wen di DayWalker & CIA tek set pon Jamaica....but ultimately wi haffi blame Manley for not ovastanding the environment, the forces he was up against and the trauma his rhetoric would cause.

Errol Barrow in Barbados was an effective reformer...but yuh neva hear much rhetoric fram dat.... im jus do im ting pon di QT....not dat Barbados is/was like Jamaica but dat approach to reform would be sustainable.

A missed opportunity from a guy who was uniquely placed to do some great works.

[Willi]

Mouth can cause much harm.

Manley was from the "black" elite himself, though he likely did NOT consider himself black.

He should have realized how his people were and modified his tone to assuage them and keep them on board. Instead he got militant and Seaga loved that excuse to get even more militant himself.

Ultimately, no matter how much we cuss each other, we jamaicans fundamentally LIKE each other and are most comfortable with each other. That is the real basis of conflict resolution. Most who migrated are NEVER truly happy. Nowhere is better than YARD, but if and only IF Yard is running right.

The challenge is to get the old bus back into shape. We love that old bus stone cold! We need to admit that first and move forward with that ideal.

[Don1]

Mouth can cause much harm.

Manley was from the "black" elite himself, though he likely did NOT consider himself black.

He should have realize how his people were and modified his tone to assuage them and keep them on board. Instead he got militant and Seaga loved that excuse to get even more militant himself.

Ultimately, no matter how much we cuss each other, we jamaicans fundamentally LIKE each other and are most comfortable with each other. that is the real basis of conflict resolution. Most who migrated are NEVER truly happy. No where is better than YARD, but if and only IF Yard is running right.

The challenge is to get the old bus back into shape. We love that old bus stone cold! We need to admit that first and move forward with that ideal.

true dat


but Mikey desperately wanted to identify wid "black" people...don't?

[Muadib]

is now him start count dead people ah Tivoli..

Him trace mi wheh deh when mi list di innocent from last time when hadams a fire M16 ovah him head and a duck down behind wall..

Summady remind mi how much recover and gunman lock up/dead from dat exercise..

LOL !!!

Mi tell him bout Oxycodine but look like him ah guh let di pain mad him.

[Willi]

Didnt people die there in 2005 as well? And then they did not even firebomb police stations.

Where was the virtiol then??

Yes, Bruce is an obfuscator, no doubt. However, you weaken your stance to say he has done nothing but brought shame, etc. Patently untrue.

I undetsnad your call for resignation, but dont act like doing a Gordon House musical chairs gonna improve anything, based on recent history we all know. The whole House seems to be filled with flawed characters.

Bruce is not irreplacable for sure, but THINK about what you are going to change too without a kneejerk reaction. We CAN do better than all we have seen in the last 20 years from JLPNP.

[MissLondon]

Mosiah, serious questions, do you really think the Tivoli 'uprising' was preventable?

Secondly who would you like to see replace Bruce, name someone. You must have someone in mind since you are so eager for him to leave.

[Muadib]

You feeling bored this morning....

[Muadib]

Mi hear seh him a back James Robertson...

[Mosiah]

Of course it was. Ask Lewin!

Anyone who supported a wanted man disqualifies himself from leadership. If it means going back to the PNP, then so be it.

Why can't we hear any apologies from any of them? At least Liad Bruce apologised. The others still have not. They were all cheering when Bruce vowed to sacrifice his political career for Dudus. I don't want those kinds in any leadership positions.

[MissLondon]

Lewin said it could have been avoided?

Given the history of Tivoli and the security forces, given how devoted some of his followers were/are, given how well armed they were/are, you believe Dudus could have been arrested and extraditied with no flare up of violence?

Has the security forces ever been into Tivoli without a resistance from some of the residence?

Secondly, if you want the Prime minister to go, you must have an alternative in mind? Yes I know you believe he is incapable of running the country, so who is? Name names.

[Mosiah]

the names are many - anybody on either side of the aisle who did not express support for the country's most wanted. if that means Portia, Tufton...just name dem, they would have been more suitable to lead a country than a lying, narco-pm as Bruised Gelding!

if this had happened in England you know what would have happened. try and expect and demand the same thing for little Jamaica.

[MissLondon]

the names are many - anybody on either side of the aisle who did not express support for the country's most wanted. if that means Portia, Tufton...just name dem, they would have been more suitable to lead a country than a lying, narco-pm as Bruised Gelding!

if this had happened in England you know what would have happened. try and expect and demand the same thing for little Jamaica.

So its support for the country's most wanted thats a problem, supporting other criminals, publically or not is ok? In England you don't have politicians in both major parties supporting criminals and criminality. Therefore if a Prime minister was to do the same thing as what is alleged of Bruce, it would be out of the norm and there would many other "clean" alternatives. Not so in Jamaica.

Tell me how replacing Bruce with Portia is going to help Jamaica? Or does that no concern you. Portia and her party have not only failed to govern the country effectively but Portia is MP of a garrison consituency herself, with one of the highest levels of pverty and violence in the country. Not to mention she has made no comments about changing the staus quo.

I get the distinct impression that you don't mind politicians supporting criminals (you don't mind Portia as your prime minister), its just that they must not do so publically. Holding garrison seats (anyone with a garrison seat will covort with and support criminals as a default) or attending known criminals funerals does not seem a problem for you.

Tell me, what is more important to you, Jamaica progressing, or Bruce Golding resigning? What would you like to see more?

[Mosiah]

Jamaica cannot progress with a character like Bruce at the helm. He said so himself! No politician in the history of the country has done what Bruce has done in supporting the most wanted man ever, lying about it, covering up about, it threatening dismissal if people try and do something about it, and it goes on. He is unfit!

Jamaica can progress without Bruce at the helm. Indeed, it will move along much faster having someone we can trust and not look upon and laugh at with disdain and disgust!

[Jawge]

A quick question: Have ever served in the military or lead a military operation? What cause you to be so so sure that was the only way of resolving the "dudus issue"? Thanks.

[Mosiah]

i would first ask how effective and successful she has been as a teacher.