So the tunnels are real or not???

[Don1]

It is legitimate to criticize GOJ agencies

However the real criticism should be directed at those who created maintained and still support garrison structures

[Willi]

I did not see it and would not have taken offense anyway.

The dollar movement up or down is NOT significant and no reason to panic either way. The Opposition is being histrionic in lamenting when it falls and then a year later they find a reason to lament when it rises. If the movements were dramatic, maybe then I would agree with them, but that aint the case.

In summary it means little and I dont think the GOJ is much responsible either way, even if they try to take credit when it suits them.

[Don1]

Then let us debate the chaka chaka and not the urban legends and fairy tales.

Otherwise, mek wi talk bout rolling calf, Golden table in Cobre and Annie Palmer up ah Rose Hall. LoL

All is up for debate...tunnels included...the real ones now rediscovered which provided lubricated conduits for criminal activity

[Assasin]

Look at it this way it would be easy for the police to catch the criminals if they had a map of these Tunnels that the authorites build.

Even if it wasn't a garrison criminals could still use these "tunnels" to escape, no?

[Willi]

So, I guess they were built for ciminal purposes and not co-opted?

If these were indeed dug tunnels by criminals, I would be deep in the discussion too. it would have been legit. However, do I debate taxi services when gunmen use them to get transported to future crime scenes?

[Assasin]

You got the feeling that it was some Mexican or Palistine tunnel the Officers were talking about, Not man a run inna drain. LOL

[Don1]

Operational issue for the Security forces, not really worthy of strategic discussion here.

If we want sometying to discuss, we should be debating how it was possible that GOJ developed housing projects dont keep records of infrastructural work done. You say the SF did not know they were there, yet still urban legend did. Did any of them try to go look up the records, or were they too lazy, or did the records not get kept. THAT is more worty of debate in my mind.

However, the tone of the debate continues to imply that is the TG man dem dig dem owna tunnel!!!

It is a BIG difference that officially created tunnels were there and officialdom nuh know bout it. Summen wrong bad there!

I don't see the problem with discussing tunnels and their use by terrorists. It's fair game... even as crocodiles and plasma TVs are.

We can put to rest the idea that they built their own tunnels..yes

We can also excoriate GOJ agencies for being ignorant of Tivoli infrastructure even despite its independent republican status...yes

The real issue remains the organized mass criminality an degradation of Tivoli and the entire garrison structure it represents so well....mi all ave foreigna ah try lecture mi bout Tivoli to ****************!!

Those who nurtured and in some cases still support the "Tivoli model for Jamaica" must be held accountable...with extreme prejudice

Then we figure out how to clean up the shiit we created

[Willi]

Dat is a different argument and is more valid and relevant.

I glad people get it in their skulls that another urban legend bit the dust. Now to di rolling calves...

[Willi]

EXACTLY.

I myself did not know and left open all possibilities. It was with a tinge of disappointment that I saw another salacious urban legend crash and burn. We still have De Lawrence, golden tables and rolling calves though. LoL

[Don1]

This is a specious argument unworthy of much comment

It's obvious that if the police knew of the tunnels they could have tried to counter that strategy...they didn't

[Don1]

As I said all is fair game...tunnels crocs plasmas ...as well as strategy

[Willi]

But dem know bout Rolling calves and cant stop dem in Hangman town. LoL

[Don1]

So, I guess they were built for ciminal purposes and not co-opted?

If these were indeed dug tunnels by criminals, I would be deep in the discussion too. it would have been legit. However, do I debate taxi services when gunmen use them to get transported to future crime scenes?

Why the concerted defence of this tunnel issue?? Why the spin??

I saw where the police claimed tunnels existed...never saw where they claimed the terrorists dug them...even if they did make that claim..so what??
Tunnels exist...FACT

At this point in our national affairs we cannot undermine the security forces with spurious issues

[OJ]

but were they built as storm drain and used for exits.. Its fascinating that the ex pm and the mayor can state without reservation that they are no tunnels. Which to me means they are no tunnels) explicitly built (because off course the thugs did not build them! or rather they are drains that are used as escape routes.

[Islandman]

It just goes to show how far our political leaders will go to defend criminality over law and order when politics is involved. They clearly must have known what the real truth was.

Some of these people really should be in prison for aiding and abetting.