A race to the bottom.

[Reggaedoc]

Whats happening in Jamaica is truely a race to the bottom.

The recent musings by PM Golding, and JLP spokesman Vaz seem to suggest that the PM's behaviour is justified, based on the fact that the PNP had transgressions of their own. Apparently there is a race in Jamaica to see which administration can be the worse.

Mrs. P mentioned the Westminster system, and demcracy in the same paragraph. Well someone should enlighten her on what true democracy is, and to further inform her that that joke system developed by the British is anything but democratic. It is time to get rid of that system. We should not hold our breath however, since Jamaica is one of the few countries in the modern world where the ruling elite, and leading academics have a picture of Queen Elizabeth hanging beside a picture of Jesus on their walls.

In any true democracy, the PM having made such transgression, as the current PM has, would have tendered his resignation, or at the least would have appointed an independent panel to start impeachment hearings.
Well, that would be asking too much of the Westminster so called democracy that we have subscribed to hook, line, and sinker for so long. The one thing that that system allows is a snap sham election when the opposition is most vulnerable, so that the corrupt party in power can be guaranteed victory. I am sure that the plan is already in place for this to take place. Very sad indeed. The party in power is a car without a driver, and the opposition is a headless corpse. No good way out, and poor people continue to suffer.

[Sir X]

I have argued that for awhile , the westminister system has admitted it is broken .

Nick Clegg ran on a platform of constitutional change for true voter representation in parliment.Its a coalition Parliment because of this and the Torries, Lib Dem and labour have signed off on it .

Broken is not the word , obsolete, all it does is reinforces garrisons !

[Willi]

You do know that its common knowledge among Tory and Labour activists that the LibDems are the most lying set of people pan di planet. When canvassing, they are liable to say anything.

Dont use them as an example.

[Willi]

The non-Mestminster models fare even WORSE on average. Look around the planet and gather the evidence.

Its the PEOPLE, not the system that matters (primarily). Though the system should ideally match the people it serves.

[Sir X]

Come on willi , a lie a politician , are they inseperable , the degree to which one party would lie as opposed to the other is insignificant , when you see them put on a platform a specific agenda that thier party campaigns on ,You can expect them to make a real attempt to honor it.

The consequences are political revocation from office.

That is a fact.

[Sir X]

Point taken and we should be comfortable with ours and not attempt to make it serve the people?

I dont understand you ?

[ReggaeMike]

The non-Mestminster models fare even WORSE on average. Look around the planet and gather the evidence.

Its the PEOPLE, not the system that matters (primarily). Though the system should ideally match the people it serves.

I would hate to imagine any government of Jamaica run by the current set of politicians using the US system of governance. Why? Because like the Westminster system, the US presidential system depends a lot on simple honour to keep it ticking. A LOT of stuff is not spelt out in the US Constitution and US Presidents have immense power. That can at times be checked by Congress, especially when Congress has a majority from the opposing party (so Democratic President, Republican Congress or vice versa). I can't imagine with Jamaica's current tribalist mindset, that anything remotely similar would happen here. It would simply be a PNP President and a completely pliant PNP Parliament or a JLP President and a completely pliant JLP Parliament.

[Islandman]

Agreed. It is our CULTURE of government rather than our SYSTEM that is primarily the problem.


Yet again this is where the Barbados comparison is so useful. They have basically the same political system, yet have produced a TOTALLY different culture of government than we have.

[Sir X]

The only way to curb that culture is ................?

[Gamma]

correct again willi.....the best system in the owrld will fail if those responsible for administering it are corrupt!

[Gamma]

constitutional reform?!!

[Islandman]

Like some of what Bruce promised us during his NDM days.

He had some good ideas too, that seems like so long ago now....sad

[Gamma]

i hoped you caught the sarcasm in my post...it was supposed to drip like molasses...thick and heavy!

[Sir X]

Corruption is a part of the political process is it not ? every political system fights this cancer , why do we see it as an excuse not to do nothing.

Fact is we have a corrupt culture and its growing in Jamaica, every social aspect of our society screams this out every day , what do we do about it.

Leave the current system in place , give stats of failed parliments and democratic governments as an exuse not to do anything?

[ReggaeMike]

Point taken and we should be comfortable with ours and not attempt to make it serve the people?

I dont understand you ?

I've also maintained that it is the people in the system that are more important than the system itself.

Of course we shouldn't be comfortable with our lot, but no attempt to make the system serve the people better will:

1. get rid of the current lot unless they are all voted out (which we can do under ANY system; heck even Cuba has voting).

2. work as long as the current lot stay around. We fool ourselves by calling on the government to change its way and change the constitution because even if they do the latter they will not do the former and all that will happen is that we will see yet another "failed system" and call for more change. It's like throwing out the baby and keeping the bathwater.

The only way to get a change in the way the government behaves, any government from this point on in Jamaica is simply to stop voting for these clowns and to vote for independents (and to have people run as independents). There are quite a few examples of where the Westminster system (or modifications of it) works: Canada, Barbados, India (modified), NZ (modified) and even the UK (just watch - the Conservatives and Lib Dems have agreed to put the issue to a referendum and there is no guarantee that the British will vote in favour of changing it; the Lib Dems naturally want a change because what they get is a lot of disparate votes scattered across a lot of areas and even then it doesn't seem they want to totally change it but rather modify it like what NZ has done where you still directly elect reps and also have the numbers balanced in Parliament to reflect the overall vote with some reps being given seats by proportional representation). There are also examples where the presidential or US system works: The USA, Costa Rica, Brazil. There are also examples where parliamentary systems other than Westminster work (Germany) and where presidential systems other than the US work (France). But there are also examples where the Westminster system, US system, other parliamentary and presidential systems definitely DO NOT work and unfortunately a lot of them are in Africa and Asia with a couple here in the Caribbean (Jamaica and Haiti). It's not the systems primarily, it's the people. Until the majority of Jamaican people hold themselves and their representatives to a higher standard, no system of self-government will work.