Golding or Simpson-Miller?

[Gamma]

i know it is a wicked catch 22 isn't it?! we need to display some political maturity starting at the leadership level. unfortnautely it look like maturity is defined as being able to do your business without directly getting yuh fingers caught in the cookie jar...."kern, SIT down, KERN, KERN??!!"

[MissLondon]

Well I would consider the JLP to have failed if:

Firstly, there is not a tangible improvement in the economy ie growth, reduced debt burden, signs of reducing unemployment and poverty, increased productivity. Now considering the state the country has been in in the last few decades, I don't expect Jamaica's economy to be growing like China's in 10 years, but the steps should be in place for Jamaica to experience significant growth going forward.

And secondly, If there is not a downward trend in the murder rate. This is more secondary to be honest. In order to seriously tackle the murder rate, the government needs money, which will only be there if number one is sorted out.

[MissLondon]

i know it is a wicked catch 22 isn't it?! we need to display some political maturity starting at the leadership level. unfortnautely it look like maturity is defined as being able to do your business without directly getting yuh fingers caught in the cookie jar...."kern, SIT down, KERN, KERN??!!"

Well thats definately one thing, in a politcally mature country Portia would never have been voted to be party leader and nearly prime minister! but Jamaican voters need to hold their elective representatives accountable. If they fail, withdraw your vote! Wheres the incentive to do anything if you know come election time, people are going to vote for you anyway in the name of party loyalty?

[Mosiah]

And secondly, If there is not a downward trend in the murder rate. This is more secondary to be honest. In order to seriously tackle the murder rate, the government needs money, which will only be there if number one is sorted out.

How much does it cost a country to honour an extradition request? How much does it cost a country to secure the services of a big time law firm in order to deny an extradition request?

Some things don't cost a penny, MissLondon. One of those things is political will.

Don't worry bout di odda tings. Chinese is officially our second language!

[Mosiah]

Dem tek people fi granite fram lang time!

Heh heh!

[MissLondon]

How much does it cost a country to honour an extradition request? How much does it cost a country to secure the services of a big time law firm in order to deny an extradition request?

Some things don't cost a penny, MissLondon. One of those things is political will.

Don't worry bout di odda tings. Chinese is officially our second language!

To be honest Mosiah, the extradition is small fry to me, its a distraction. The fact is, if Dudus had been extraditied, someone else would just step into his shoes, both political parties would continue to shelter and deal with criminals and jamaica would still be the murder capital of the world! The way I see it is, unless your going to deal with all the Dons and all the gangs, what is the point?

When I say deal with the murder rate, I mean REALLY deal with the murder rate, increase and improve the police force and army with better qualified personal, build more prisons, utilise the latest technology etc. Your right, it needs political will, but it also needs money and a lot of it.

[Mosiah]

If all the govt is going to do is to extradite Dudus, then yes, I agree with you. But it should not be just that. Clearly! So, yes, it is going to need money to dismantle the garrisons nd all the rest, but let us start somewhere. And that somewhere does not even have to be Dudus. We need to get serious about crime and we really aren't!

[Jawge]

What of Dr.Peter Phillips; he is new and full of ideas. yes?

[MissLondon]

If all the govt is going to do is to extradite Dudus, then yes, I agree with you. But it should not be just that. Clearly! So, yes, it is going to need money to dismantle the garrisons nd all the rest, but let us start somewhere. And that somewhere does not even have to be Dudus. We need to get serious about crime and we really aren't!

Well, this I completely agree with.

[MdmeX]

What of Dr.Peter Phillips; he is new and full of ideas. yes?

New - in what sense? He had no solution then, so obviously he was part and parcel of the problem.

[Gamma]

he is not as old and has SOME ideas...not the best but better than portia....someone completely fresh is the best choice....i mentioned lisa but there is also DM...nuh suh?

[Karl]

Yeh I know its not going to happen, but seriously if the JLP fail, what are the solutions? The PNP have proved they are not a viable option. The only other option is the one Don1 talked about in the other thread .

MissLondon,
Those groups failed. Add new blood and some of those thought to be impotent shall come to life!

[Gamma]

yuh just asking for more of the same!

[Don1]

To be honest Mosiah, the extradition is small fry to me, its a distraction. The fact is, if Dudus had been extraditied, someone else would just step into his shoes, both political parties would continue to shelter and deal with criminals and jamaica would still be the murder capital of the world! The way I see it is, unless your going to deal with all the Dons and all the gangs, what is the point?

When I say deal with the murder rate, I mean REALLY deal with the murder rate, increase and improve the police force and army with better qualified personal, build more prisons, utilise the latest technology etc. Your right, it needs political will, but it also needs money and a lot of it.

2 things:

1. The Dudus issue is not a small matter. It is huge. What it reflects is the capture of the state by criminal warlords. The fact that Golding finds it impossible politically to allow the extradition to proceed is an indication that Tivoli elements have tremendous power over him and the JLP...and by extension the Jamaican state.
I don't see how anyone can believe that's not serious.

There is no way the JLP govt can effectively tackle crime or garrisons while being themselves beholden to criminal elements.

2. Jamaica needs better policing no doubt. I support that.

Understand however that our crime problems are not solvable by better policing, states of emergency etc.... or even depending on economic growth and the trickle down benefits to the dispossessed... (the latte crowd's position).

The solutions lie in political reform to reduce tribalism & corruption ...allied with massive community development investment ...... especially housing & education/training to build social capital.

[Mosiah]

2 things:
1. The Dudus issue is not a small matter. It is huge. What it reflects is the capture of the state by criminal warlords.

I was quite stunned when MissLondon said that, and disappointed. And to think I went and got a haircut and stuff, just in case!