Manley in a lucid moment..

[Muadib]

"In his farewell speech to Parliament last week, Prime Minister Michael Manley warned against the dangers of "political tribalism." But talking later with reporters, he also conceded that the dons are not going to disappear, so long as politicians fail to do anything about the slum conditions that breed them."

Now that we all understand 'de-garrisonization'

All Aboard !!

Latte for 2 please...

[Rudi]

OK, so what's the grandmaster's plan for the numerous slums accross Jamaica?. Please don't say the islandwide adoptation of the Tivarli model. Mi a beg you. Enquiring minds would like to know.

[Muadib]

Downtown.. it's all about Downtown..

You people need a Map ?

[Rudi]

I think it's a bit more complicated than sipping latte on Ocean Blvd. You do realize that?

[Don1]

I think it's a bit more complicated than sipping latte on Ocean Blvd. You do realize that?

At least Chemical is consistent.....stupid...but consistent.

[ReggaeMike]

OK, so what's the grandmaster's plan for the numerous slums accross Jamaica?. Please don't say the islandwide adoptation of the Tivarli model. Mi a beg you. Enquiring minds would like to know.

The slum conditions don't need to be removed first (in any case unless the dons aren't around anymore then one can't get rid of the slum conditions since the dons know that this is the source of their power and would interfere in any efforts to ameliorate slum conditions).

If the crime-lords are rounded up (as was done in the Bahamas in 2001) then the murder rate can fall. It is at that point that they can attempt to remove the slum conditions because they will have much less interference and much less pressure to use up resources elsewhere on the island fighting a runaway crime spree.

See the following articles:

From the Economist in 2002 - http://www.economist.com/world/ameri...y_id=E1_JPDRNG

The Caribbean
Crime without punishment
Better policing, not the death penalty, is the answer
Jan 10th 2002 | PORT OF SPAIN | From The Economist print edition

AP
ANOTHER year, another bloodbath: on New Year's Eve gunmen from 100 Lane, a slum enclave in the northern part of Kingston, Jamaica's capital, killed Glenroy Maize, a juice vendor who lived in Park Lane, just round the corner. Two nights later, 30 of Mr Maize's trench-coated friends took their revenge. Armed with AK-47 and M-16 assault rifles, they blocked off 100 Lane, and killed seven of their neighbours, including two young girls and their mother.



There were 1,138 murders last year—up from 887 in 2000—in Jamaica. Per head, only Colombia and Central America have more killings. The carnage has brought calls from politicians and the public for the use of the death penalty, as a quick fix. Such clamour is common throughout the English-speaking Caribbean. In 1999, Trinidad brought back the noose. Ten men were hanged with great public fanfare in 1999. Far from falling, the murder rate has risen slightly since then (see chart).



Deterrents, however severe, do not work unless killers are rational and expect to be caught. In cases of domestic violence, which accounted for 28% of Jamaica's killings last year, the culprit is easily identified, but not easily deterred. Half of the murders are the work of the island's politically-linked drug gangs. Park Lane is a fief of the opposition Jamaica Labour Party; 100 Lane belongs to the governing People's National Party. A police post between the two was closed last year. With an election due some time this year, the violence may intensify.

Thanks to the drug mobs' political connections, gangland and reprisal killers are rarely arrested. Between 1997 and 2000, Jamaica's police cleared up only 49% of murder cases. Police methods in Jamaica, as in many of the other islands, are clumsy: the police themselves are often accused of killing innocent civilians. Recruits spend much of their time on parade-ground drill and firearms practice. They are not well trained in detection and they are short of forensic equipment.

But some islands are showing that better policing brings results. Of the 25 murders in Barbados last year, 21 were cleared up. Robberies fell by a third. The police credit community work, more foot patrols, extra vehicles and sharper investigations. A new forensic lab will be ready by June. Unlike Jamaica, the Bahamas locks up some of its drug lords. The murder rate in the Bahamas (population: 300,000) surged in 2000. Many killings were drug-related, and only two out of three were cleared up. Then the police rounded up eight drug kingpins; since June 2001, the murder rate has fallen by half. And 400 Bahamian police have taken training courses in how to handle domestic violence, a welcome change from the traditional attitude of ignoring “man and woman business”. Come back, PC Plod.

From the BBC - 2002:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1859948.stm

Tuesday, 12 March, 2002, 12:11 GMT
Drug lords could 'ruin' Jamaica

The BBC's Tim Sebastian met Dr Peter Phillips
The Jamaican Minister of National Security and Justice, Dr Peter Phillips has claimed that the survival of Jamaica could be called into question if his government cannot curb the power of drug barons in the country.
Reports say that Jamaica is bleeding to death with more than 1,100 murders recorded last year and 100 tonnes of cocaine trans-shipped to western markets.


Dr Peter Philips told Tim Sebastian for BBC HARDtalk that the government is putting a new strategy in place to try and tackle drug related murders, but the process would be slow.

"There is no instant solution, there is no magic wand but we have tried to outline a strategy forward," he said.

"It's going to take time, resources and will, but we dare not fail because if we do, the survival of the country is going to be brought into question."

A question of strength

Dr Phillips went on to deny rumours that the Jamaican Government does not have the will or the strength to break the drug lords power, arguing that Jamaica will follow the example set by the Bahamas.

The number of murders in the Bahamas has fallen by 50% since June 2001 following a government round up of drug lords.

The Jamaican Government has also been criticised over the alleged close connection between politicians and drug barons.

In April 2001, the Jamaican Finance Minister Omar Davies and two cabinet colleagues were seen mourning at the funeral of Willie "Haggart" Moore, an infamous gangster.

Police links


Dr Phillips claimed that drug gangs can no longer depend on political protection from politicians at the highest level of government.

However he did admit that there are probably some "residual connections" left over from when political and drug ties were strong in the 1970s.

"If you asked me whether or not there are elements within the police force that may be compromised I would say I believe there would be," he said.

"If you asked me whether or not within the political system as a whole there may be persons who have links that are too close or which may be compromised, I'd say the probability exists."

Dr Phillips also defended the Jamaican police force over its so called trigger happy attitude.

In the year 2000, 140 people were killed by Jamaican police, the highest ratio of police killings reported anywhere in the world.

"Minimal force"

Dr Phillips called for the police force to be better trained to deal with armed criminals and ensure "the use of force is minimal".


He also launched an attack on a report by the international human rights organisation, Amnesty International which accused the Jamaican police force of abusing human rights.

"Amnesty has developed a particular view of the police force," he said.

"It would be far from me to suggest that everything is perfect regarding the application of force but on the other side we have numbers of police who are subject to direct attacks."

You can hear HARDtalk in full at the following times:

[Hortical]

If the crime-lords are rounded up (as was done in the Bahamas in 2001) then the murder rate can fall. It is at that point that they can attempt to remove the slum conditions because they will have much less interference and much less pressure to use up resources elsewhere on the island fighting a runaway crime spree.

Mike how frequently do you consume hallucinogens? Its a great idea for a political science afternoon lecture at UCONN, but this would not be practical under the political/don relationship in Jamaica.

[Muadib]

I guarantee that if I am sipping Latte on Ocean Blvd.. the main problem you will be having with downtown is affording to live down there.. which is how it should be..

Forget what Manley told y'all..

[Muadib]

Tek time wid dem.. dem belong at UWI lecturing...

[ReggaeMike]

Mike how frequently do you consume hallucinogens? Its a great idea for a political science afternoon lecture at UCONN, but this would not be practical under the political/don relationship in Jamaica.

I only consume hallucinogens as often as you take your anti-depressants.

Starting out with "it would not be practical" is the first step in simply condoning the current state of affairs and condemning one's self to whatever fate you are willing to accept. I'm sure if various figures throughout history such as King had had that attitude we would still be witnessing Jim Crow rule in the South.

Do you know what the political/drug lord relationship was like in the Bahamas? Here, read this and find out:

http://political-bahamas.blogspot.co...itself-in.html

An excerpt:

MONDAY, MARCH 8, 2010

Bahamian history repeats itself in Jamaica
Tribune242 Editorial:


"WE'RE going through very stressful times," a leading Jamaican businessman admitted yesterday as the government of Jamaica and the United States were locked in judicial debate over one of that island's well known "dons"...............

There is even talk in Jamaica that the US law enforcement agents could kidnap Coke and put him before a US court. Apparently, there is no clause in the existing extradition treaty between Jamaica and the US to prevent it. But there is certainly precedent for it. In 1992 US agents kidnapped Alvarez Machain, wanted for kidnapping and murder, from his Mexico home and took him to the US.

Also causing further confusion is the sudden suspension last week of the US visa of another leading Jamaican citizen -- Wayne Chen. The Jamaican government claims that his visa has nothing to do with the Coke case, which has started speculation down another path. Mr Chen is still without his visa.

Many Jamaicans worry that they have been without a US ambassador for a year and three months -- "never before in living memory has that happened," said a citizen in pained surprise.

Which takes us back to the ugly eighties in the Bahamas during Ronald Reagan's administration when this nation had no ambassador for two years. And, yes, drugs was the evil nematode at the bottom of it all.

("Nematode", a favourite word of former attorney general Paul Adderley. In one of his flights of verbal fancy on the floor of the House he called a Tribune reporter a "nematode". However, we think the word better suited to the world of crime than to a reporter trying to do an honest job of reporting during a corrupt era).

During that period the Bahamas-US relations were conducted by US Chargé d'Affaires Andrew Antippas. This situation continued for two years until an ambassador was finally appointed. The Pindling government did not approve of Antippas, nor did Antippas approve of what was happening in the Bahamas on the drug scene. On the eventual arrival of the ambassador, Mr Antippas became the Deputy Chief of Mission. However, the Pindling administration made certain that he did not hold that position for long. They made life so difficult for the Antippases that in order to patch up relations the new ambassador -- a non career diplomat -- had to dismiss Mr Antippas so that "good friends who occasionally disagree" could start to mend fences.

But in 1988, Mr Antippas had the last word. He agreed to testify in the trial of Colombian Joe Lehder who had a free pass to Norman's Cay under the Pindling administration. Norman's Cay became the headquarters of Lehder's drug empire. And Andrew Antippas told the story of how he had to advise the US property owners to abandon their properties and leave the island because the US Embassy could no longer give them protection in the Bahamas.

"I testified to all that I had tried to accomplish against Lehder and the Bahamas' unwillingness to cooperate and that really blew a fuse in Nassau," Mr Antippas told the world.

The same fuse is now being blown in Jamaica. Dudus Coke might as well go quietly, as go he will, dragging Jamaica's reputation in the mud behind him.

March 08, 2010

Note that the same parties that were around in the Bahamas in the 1980s are the same ones around in 2001-2002.

So obviously it is not impossible under these kind of arrangements for even tainted political parties to later do something about drugs once they are in government. Even on our own island we have the example of PJ's administration locking up or shooting dead about 3 or 4 dons if I'm not mistaken. As horrible a crook/thief as PJ was, he was no fool and didn't tie his hands behind his back by running in a garrison seat (a seat which is as much captive to the party concerned as it is captor to the politician who runs for it) and so acting against even a prominent don carried little political implications for him (since 1. it wasn't in his constituency, so even if that constituency decided to defect and vote for the other part then his seat was safe and 2. since Eddie ran in a garrison constituency and was obviously long since compromised it left PJ with a trump card to play so that he could ensure his party didn't lose the few swing voters and their majority in parliament).

The current set in parliament though have little motivation or need to actually put these drug dealers away, but that isn't to say that even others in those same parties couldn't do what the Bahamas did in 2001. Heck, even the current set might be motivated to do so if they find the right inspiration (which is probably going to be fear of losing power due to voter apathy and dissatisfaction leading to ever lower turnouts and the occasional independent or rasta winning). Should the current lot eventually view the drug dealers as more of a hinderance than a help in gaining power then some (not all) might be willing to do anything (including turning on the drug dealers) to keep their
"seat at the table" so to speak. That wouldn't make them saints by the way, and they should still be tried and locked up as criminals, but remember there is little or no honour among thieves and they will turn on each other depending on the reason.

[ReggaeMike]

Tek time wid dem.. dem belong at UWI lecturing...

As if that is a bad thing.

Honestly it's amazing how the world now seems to glorify ignorance.

[Muadib]

Not at all.. lovely place for irrelevant theory and profundity.. it they had just kept it there in their coming into the 70's.. well Jamaica would have stood a chance..

Oh Well..

[Muadib]

The US certainly has the moral authority to lecture us on dealing with Dons..

"In the mid-20th century, the Mafia was reputed to have infiltrated many labor unions in the United States, notably the Teamsters, whose president Jimmy Hoffa disappeared and is widely believed to have been murdered by close personal friend Frank Sheeran, as stated in his book I Heard You Paint Houses. In the 1980s, the U.S. government made a determined effort to remove Mafia influence from labor unions.
In the 21st century, the Mafia has been involved in a broad spectrum of illegal activities. These include murder, extortion, corruption of public officials, gambling, infiltration of legitimate businesses, labor racketeering, loan sharking, tax fraud schemes, and most notably today, stock manipulation schemes."

[Gamma]

not even to mention LSE...

[ReggaeMike]

Not at all.. lovely place for irrelevant theory and profundity.. it they had just kept it there in their coming into the 70's.. well Jamaica would have stood a chance..

Oh Well..

Yup. Just demonstrates what I was talking about.

Then again "ignorance is bliss" and I guess some would like to remain in a blissful state sipping lattes on Ocean Blvd. Certainly some folks are more blissful than others.