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  • Jamaicans facing more visa restrictions

    Baugh cites bad behaviour as main factor

    BY ALICIA DUNKLEY Observer staff reporter dunkleya@jamaicaobserver.com
    Thursday, April 01, 2010



    COUNTRIES in Latin America have joined the list of states that have imposed visa restrictions on Jamaicans because of the bad behaviour of some of the country's nationals.
    In the past decade countries such as the Cayman Islands, Britain, and Costa Rica have imposed visa restrictions for Jamaicans, citing the number of crimes committed by Jamaican nationals and drug trafficking as the underlying factors.
    Appearing yesterday before the Standing Finance Committee of Parliament, which is examining the 2010/2011 Estimates of Expenditure, Foreign Affairs Minister Dr Kenneth Baugh said Latin American countries have been following suit.
    "Jamaica in particular is having a difficult time even in Latin American countries because visa provisions are being applied to us where it never existed before because of the way we behave in those countries," the foreign affairs minister said.
    Dr Baugh was responding to questions posed by Opposition spokesperson on foreign affairs, Anthony Hylton, about the imposition which he described as "unfair immigration rules" in the context of the country's trading arrangements with Europe and within the Caribbean Community.
    Hylton lamented that cultural groups, musicians and others were finding free movement difficult despite the presence of mutual agreements.
    "It's a very difficult issue even though we signed the EPA (Economic Partnership Agreement) and other free-trade arrangements," Baugh admitted.
    "The question of the movement of people and having access to territories in Europe, there is no question they will apply their own rules. We certainly will negotiate and deal with each issue as it arises because these are individual countries we are dealing with," he added.
    Jamaicans, though, will have to behave better, Baugh noted.
    "We have to appeal to our Jamaicans who go abroad to do business, our artistes who perform in these countries and our young people who end up living and working in many of these countries.
    "Sometimes we defeat ourselves. We create our own stumbling blocks because of our behaviour.
    "We have to make a special appeal to Jamaicans that the way we conduct ourselves when we go to other countries when we get opportunities is creating difficulties for others," he continued.
    In response to queries from Opposition Member of Parliament for Western Hanover Ian Hayles as to whether there was a similar problem with the United States Government in terms of visa renewals and new visa applications, Baugh said the situation was normal.

    http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...fected_7517631
    "Jamaica's future reflects its past, having attained only one per cent annual growth over 30 years whilst neighbours have grown at five per cent." (Article)

  • #2
    Is wha unuh expect? 18 years of "nuff gyal, car and highway" and run with it in bleeding the people with out of this world corruption. I support those visa restrictions and unuh behaving too badly overseas.
    Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else - Vince Lombardi

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hortical View Post
      Is wha unuh expect? 18 years of "nuff gyal, car and highway" and run with it in bleeding the people with out of this world corruption. I support those visa restrictions and unuh behaving too badly overseas.
      Hortical, it is FAR more than just 18 years. It started in tandem with garrisonization as people became encouraged to display uncouth behaviour as part of an increasingly confrontational and violent political culture. I wouldn't be surprised if we could trace visa restrictions starting as far back as the late 1960s and just accelerating from there.

      One thing is for certain though: very few countries have ever lifted visa restrictions once they impose them. I think PJ managed to get one country to lift diplomatic visas (no good for us commoners) in a reciprocal arrangement, but I've never heard of any Jamaican government from 1962 right up until 2010 ever convincing any country to lift visa restrictions.


      Again I will say that if any future Jamaican government cracks down on those who abuse their right to leave by violating immigration laws then we won't be seeing this problem.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hortical, Be Careful....

        Originally posted by Hortical View Post
        Is wha unuh expect? 18 years of "nuff gyal, car and highway" and run with it in bleeding the people with out of this world corruption. I support those visa restrictions and unuh behaving too badly overseas.
        Hortical, you are a good person and a poster whom I genuinely respect (despite our occasional disagreements) . As such, I’m warning you that certain posters will soon start labeling you as being “negative” because you call it as it is.

        Having said this, I always make it a point to read everything you post, because you are not afraid to see through the bullsh!t and speak the truth .

        Comment


        • #5
          Interesting Points

          Originally posted by ReggaeMike View Post
          Hortical, it is FAR more than just 18 years. It started in tandem with garrisonization as people became encouraged to display uncouth behaviour as part of an increasingly confrontational and violent political culture. I wouldn't be surprised if we could trace visa restrictions starting as far back as the late 1960s and just accelerating from there.

          One thing is for certain though: very few countries have ever lifted visa restrictions once they impose them. I think PJ managed to get one country to lift diplomatic visas (no good for us commoners) in a reciprocal arrangement, but I've never heard of any Jamaican government from 1962 right up until 2010 ever convincing any country to lift visa restrictions.

          Again I will say that if any future Jamaican government cracks down on those who abuse their right to leave by violating immigration laws then we won't be seeing this problem.
          Very good point and, as usual, an interesting post, ReggaeMike. I’ll try and do some research later today, but I’m sure you are correct in stating that “few countries have ever lifted visa restrictions.” For sure, I cannot recall any such country doing so.

          Also, like you correctly stated, this nonsense has been going on for much, much longer than 18 years.

          Another food for thought post from you, boss .

          Comment


          • #6
            This is a generally poor article though.

            The first thing I noticed was that the article did not name a single country in Latin America (other than Costa Rica) which has now applied visas where none were imposed before.

            To the best of my knowledge the visa situation with regards to Latin America was thus:

            Visas required before arrival - Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Brazil, Paraguay and Bolivia (and now Costa Rica apparently)

            Visas granted upon arrival - Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Panama (Costa Rica used to be in this category)

            No visas required - Nicaragua (but I'm unsure at this point since I think Central America operates a dual visa system where individual countries issue their own visas but they also operate a common visa which is good for the 4 main Central American countries once issued), Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Chile, Argentina and Uruguay. These 8 countries incidentally represent about 20% of the 41 countries where Jamaicans should have visa free access. It's really sad though when you consider that Canada and the UK haven't imposed visas on most other West Indians (excepting Guyanese who also have a tendency to flout immigration laws) and the EU Schengen Zone countries have granted visa-free access to the citizens of Antigua-Barbuda, Barbados, Bahamas and St. Kitts-Nevis. That's what having good behaving citizens does. We don't even need competent government as demonstrated by Antigua (by the way, does anybody think the same thing could have happened in Jamaica? Something similar happened, but the PM constituency seat is usually so safe I couldn't imagine the same thing happening to Golding or Simpson-Miller as happened to Spencer).

            So which of those 8 countries (or 12 if you include the ones that grant visas upon arrival) have now imposed visa restrictions?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Historian View Post
              Very good point and, as usual, an interesting post, ReggaeMike. I’ll try and do some research later today, but I’m sure you are correct in stating that “few countries have ever lifted visa restrictions.” For sure, I cannot recall any such country doing so.

              Also, like you correctly stated, this nonsense has been going on for much, much longer than 18 years.

              Another food for thought post from you, boss .
              Well countries DO lift visa restrictions.

              Off the top of my head I can easily think of examples involving countries in the West Indies: The EU's Schengen Zone countries lifted the visa-requirements for citizens of Antigua-Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados and St. Kitts-Nevis in 2009 (along with Seychelles and Mauritius). Now coupled with the fact that the UK and Ireland have never required visas from them (that used to apply to us once), citizens from those countries can essentially travel throughout the whole of the EEA (EU + EFTA) without needing visas. I think the only country left in Europe which doesn't require Jamaicans to get visas is Switzerland and even then there are no direct flights and the only trip where one wouldn't need a transit visa is through London. (EDIT: The citizens of these countries can also still visit Canada visa-free).

              However if something isn't done on the part of the citizenry and government then we may soon find ourselves sinking even further and joining those countries whose citizens require transit visas to go anywhere.
              Last edited by ReggaeMike; April 1, 2010, 12:02 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sure, this has been going on for much longer than 18 years. As a matter of fact we should be dealing with deviant behavior in Jamaica before it is exported to foreign shores.
                Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else - Vince Lombardi

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ah joke yuh a Mek!!!!!

                  St Kitts have good behaving people? Nuh desso the Showa posse man come from that Killed a Govt. officialand threatened many others???

                  No boss, yuh get what you negotiate and Jamaica is bad at that.

                  BTW, unless it change since 2004, Jams dont need a Mexican visa, rather we need a free Tourist Stamp from a consulate. You need valid ticket and proof of accomodation.

                  Jams dont need visa to guh Argentina...unless dem travel with UN ppt alone. UN passport holders need visas to enter Argentina!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Simple.

                    They have never TRIED and I have confirmation of this.

                    They dont give a rat's behind! They completely dropped the ball on Schenghen.

                    BTW, visa restriction are lifted all the time...just not for us.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Visas on the continent is a matter of being in the SCHENGEN aggrement, not the EIU. Since last year Switz joined Schengen and so Jams need visas.

                      I think 1 or 2 Scandi countries are NOT in Schengen and so we still have visa free access (need to check).

                      Brazil used to need visa to enter France and like magic it went away, even as nuff Brazilians tief weh in Europe.

                      Jam could have blocked Schengen visa imposition back in the late 1990s but did nothing, even when encouraged by the Dutch (who were ****************ed off at the French hogging the Schengen show).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Willi View Post
                        Visas on the continent is a matter of being in the SCHENGEN aggrement, not the EIU. Since last year Switz joined Schengen and so Jams need visas.

                        I think 1 or 2 Scandi countries are NOT in Schengen and so we still have visa free access (need to check).

                        Brazil used to need visa to enter France and like magic it went away, even as nuff Brazilians tief weh in Europe.

                        Jam could have blocked Schengen visa imposition back in the late 1990s but did nothing, even when encouraged by the Dutch (who were ****************ed off at the French hogging the Schengen show).
                        Forgot about Switzerland joining Schengen.

                        In that case all of Europe is visa territory for Jamaicans except maybe Kosovo. Not sure what their visa requirements are and even then it isn't a universally recognized country.

                        All Scandinavian countries are in the Schengen zone.

                        Brazil is smart at negotiating and yes there may be lots of Brazilian thieves in Europe, but Brazilians generally aren't seen as a flight risk. After all it isn't like their country is really that poor and plenty who go to Europe go so to play professional football and lots of Europeans travel to Brazil. So all the pieces were in place to negotiate a lifting of the visa-regime. Besides it isn't like Brazil is notorious for exporting gangs and ganja.

                        Could you elaborate somemore on how Jamaica could have prevented the imposition of the Schengen requirements in the 1990s and what it would have required on our part to forestall it?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Brazil is smart at negotiating and yes there may be lots of Brazilian thieves in Europe, but Brazilians generally aren't seen as a flight risk. After all it isn't like their country is really that poor and plenty who go to Europe go so to play professional football and lots of Europeans travel to Brazil. So all the pieces were in place to negotiate a lifting of the visa-regime. Besides it isn't like Brazil is notorious for exporting gangs and ganja.


                          mind what you talking about. They may be be known for exporting ganja but......
                          • Don't let negative things break you, instead let it be your strength, your reason for growth. Life is for living and I won't spend my life feeling cheated and downtrodden.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Willi View Post
                            Ah joke yuh a Mek!!!!!

                            St Kitts have good behaving people? Nuh desso the Showa posse man come from that Killed a Govt. officialand threatened many others???
                            But Willi, note you used the singular "man". When it comes to Jamaica you have to use the plural ("men") or a flipping collective noun ("posse", "gang", etc). How many other infamous Kittians are there? We have Blake, Coke I, Coke II, Andem, Bulby, Ze(e)k(e)s and a whole host of gangs such as Klansman, Showa Posse, Andem gang, One Order, No Order, No Fries wid dat Order.....

                            No boss, yuh get what you negotiate and Jamaica is bad at that.
                            Partly true. You get what you negotiate but you can only get what the other party is willing to give. No other party is going to be willing to fly open the floodgates on potential murderers, drug dealers and drug mules (especially if they seem to be connected to officialdom) and in a sense as part of the negotiations we have utterly failed to change that image of Jamaica over the past 4 decades. That is why the countries and regions which are major markets for drugs (Europe, Canada, USA) impose visas while those in which drug dealers have little or no interest (e.g. Uganda, Uruguay) and where Jamaicans generally wouldn't go to and therefore wouldn't overstay, immigrate illegally or behave badly are able to not impose visas on us.

                            BTW, unless it change since 2004, Jams dont need a Mexican visa, rather we need a free Tourist Stamp from a consulate. You need valid ticket and proof of accomodation.
                            Ah so Mexico has moved into the "visa on arrival" category.

                            Jams dont need visa to guh Argentina...unless dem travel with UN ppt alone. UN passport holders need visas to enter Argentina!
                            I'm sure I had Argentina in the no-visa required category.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Assasin View Post
                              Brazil is smart at negotiating and yes there may be lots of Brazilian thieves in Europe, but Brazilians generally aren't seen as a flight risk. After all it isn't like their country is really that poor and plenty who go to Europe go so to play professional football and lots of Europeans travel to Brazil. So all the pieces were in place to negotiate a lifting of the visa-regime. Besides it isn't like Brazil is notorious for exporting gangs and ganja.


                              mind what you talking about. They may be be known for exporting ganja but......
                              Is Brazil considered the land of ganja?

                              EDIT: As far as I know the crops most Europeans associate Brazil with are sugar cane (and the ethanol they put up barriers to) and maybe some GM crops. When it comes to illicit drugs Colombia is widely considered the land of coca, Jamaica the land of marijuana or ganja and Afghanistan and Burma are considered the lands of opium.

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