Desmond McKenzie takes on Peter Phillips

[Don1]

you probably will be able to do dat, but that won't be because of drivah. try presi!

Presi fi PM! LoL! That's the next logical step.

Just make de jeur what is already de facto. Showa!!

[Willi]

DEM no need street level protection.

If you kill "Miss Mattie" who run the school and church and look after the infirmed and volunteer fi everything them hell and powderhouse will rain down on YOU.

This hypothetical Miss Mattie help scholl nuff of the area gunman dem and is known as the local stalwart. He/She will be a FOUNDATION memeberb of the community.

Remember, I said that these independents should run in NON-garrison rural areas. Areas where they are known quantities.

As for the garrisons, I would not touch them for now. They would more quickly vote for Dudas and Danhai than for Mother Theresa!

[Don1]

DEM no need street level protection.

If you kill "Miss Mattie" who run the school and church and look after the infirmed and volunteer fi everything them hell and powderhouse will rain down on YOU.

This hypothetical Miss Mattie help scholl nuff of the area gunman dem and is known as the local stalwart. He/She will be a FOUNDATION memeberb of the community.

Remember, I said that these independents should run in NON-garrison rural areas. Areas where they are known quantities.

As for the garrisons, I would not touch them for now. They would more quickly vote for Dudas and Danhai than for Mother Theresa!

Ah joke yuh ah mek.

Yuh really feel dat yuh as ah loner ah guh threaten di powa/showa matrix an yuh nah get dus out?

Yuh nuh need fi bi inna nuh garrison community fi get dus.... memba man ave nuff cyar & cellie.... dem reach yuh anywhey yuh deh.

Yuh nuh si wat ah gwaan ah kuntry to?

Joke ting.

[Willi]

Loner?

Nah man, dem muss have strong community backing ah kuntry.

[Baddaz]

willi, u r missing the point... reggaemike could have the best idea... it matters not because this is a message board... it only matters when it can be implemented in jamaica... short of that we have to work with the existing system...

so now we are going to have the school lunch lady and the school crossing man be leaders in representational politics, just because they are from the area and we grow up seeing them and they serve us lunch... not saying that the people who represent should be from a constituency but are we as a nation there yet where we can find qualified individuals from each constituency... i don't know, perhaps you could answer that question...

show me a politician yard or foreign who is untainted in some form... i would argue the electability standard is relative to culture and operating environment...

those factors considered, in my opinion peter phillips can be considered a leader...

whenever we have a different system of govt and a paradigm shift in our culture and environment we can make a case to disqualify persons because they accompanied a fellow MP to the funeral of a don...

[Willi]

Ahhh,

I think you miss my point. I was not talking abouyt the lunch ladies (necessarily).

Yuh think the chairman of a Primary School or High School board gets paid for that? Yuh think they dont have a day job? Yuh think they are not accomplished in other areas? What about local JPs?

The point is you are displaying tunnel vision and thinking inside the box. there are more opportunities floating on the periphery, but you haffi open the eyes to see them and reach out to grab them.

For the record, what R-Mike proposes IS Working with the system! Just that he is changing the game strategy...even while playing by the rules.

"Show me a politrixian not tainted" sounds an awful lot like Des McKensie saying "yuh just as dirty as me"...if you really stop to think about it.

[Baddaz]

Ahhh,

I think you miss my point. I was not talking abouyt the lunch ladies (necessarily).

Yuh think the chairman of a Primary School or High School board gets paid for that? Yuh think they dont have a day job? Yuh think they are not accomplished in other areas? What about local JPs?

i did not miss your point, i think you are not being realistic about the pool of available talent in each constituency... is that the best you could show - local jps... anybody can be jp in jamaica... representational politics is a whole different matter... in saying so, some will be qualified and some will not and some will have the desire for that endeavor and some will not, the pool has to be big enough to sustain those variables...

that point extended, if the talent pool was as large as you seem to think, we would not have the same set of people running for as many have... pearnel charles comes to mind...

For the record, what R-Mike proposes IS Working with the system! Just that he is changing the game strategy...even while playing by the rules.

"Show me a politrixian not tainted" sounds an awful lot like Des McKensie saying "yuh just as dirty as me"...if you really stop to think about it.

willi, 'tainted' is relative and you know it... what i have stated sounds nothing like desmond mckenzie... i think you are being disingenuous to make a point, but its alright...

like i said, reggaemike might have a great point (said that yesterday to him)... shoot many a great points have been raised on this board, i dont see any being implemented in jamaica... still we all have to work with what the jamaica system of governance dictates...

now if you or reggaemike or anyone (examples) decides to go to jamaica, get elected in leadership (as I suggested in earlier post to reggaemike) and work to reform the parties (Don1) and the system of government, then we can effect the changes as many on this board (including reggaemike) have previously suggested... that is my point...

[Baddaz]

reggaemike, i will quote don1 as my response

All that is interesting but that 3rd force scenario aint happening for now.

Jamaica has a top down power structure...change has to come from the top. The 2 parties are too entrenched in our psyche... 99% Jamaicans cannot even philosophically conceive of any other political matrix... other than PNP/JLP control enforced at gunpoint.

If a 3rd force emerges they will soon be coopted and corrupted by the shytstem...or demolished in the streets.

We have to hope/pray for/demand an enlightened leader(s) to take over at least one or preferably both parties... a Norman Manley statesman type who will start the long process of renewal and cleansing of our political system.

i would also add, a reform of the system of govenment... we have to get the enlightened leader first...

[Baddaz]

Who will protect independents at the street level? No one.

They will be crushed by the JLP/PNP machines (literally) on the streets

The parties have to be reformed by leadership.... and the power of politicians on a whole reduced

via reform of the system of govt...

good going don1

[ReggaeMike]

reggaemike, i will quote don1 as my response



i would also add, a reform of the system of govenment... we have to get the enlightened leader first...

In response to both you and Don1, I will point out that reforming the system is a distraction to the real problem - the people in it. As I pointed out before, many other systems around the world have been tried and in each and every case a corrupt bunch of people have managed to subvert it. Cuba the early 1900s had a constitution very much like Americas and even had term-limits before the Americans and what difference did it make? Well they got Batista running the show from behind the throne to avoid the term-limits problem (imagine Bruce or Portia running the show with Ken Baugh/Daryl Vaz or Omar Davies as their puppets - it would be even worse because the real leaders would be unaccountable) and then they got Batista formally running the show as president. In the Philippines we had Ferdinand Marcos and his wife of the many shoes. In Pakistan we got military type folks taking over and in some countries in Africa we got apartheid in one country and various dictators in others. In Germany they once had a constitution (the Weimar constitution) so progressive that one of it's provisions was that every university graduate was to be given a copy of the constitution itself upon graduation - guess who subverted that?

We have to hope/pray for/demand an enlightened leader(s) to take over at least one or preferably both parties... a Norman Manley statesman type who will start the long process of renewal and cleansing of our political system.

Waiting for an enlightened leader is partly what got us here. Remember who was being called Joshua and shown as a sort of messiah figure?

It is true that enlightened rulers can come about, but waiting for our equivalent of Tsar Alexander II might be a long time in waiting (and it might never happen - remember Alexander II appeared 240 years into his dynasty and about 120-130 years after the last fairly good ruler Peter the Great). Plus no enlightened leader to my knowledge has ever emerged in a system over which they did not have great or absolute control (think Lincoln and Alexander II). At this point we would have to be waiting for an enlightened don to emerge and then for said don to scale back the activities of the garrisons and allow the politicians that he thinks are enlightened to run the show. It is hard to see how it could work in reverse, because as I think you and Don1 have pointed out the garrisons now control the MPs and not the other way around.

So if that is the way it is going to be then we might as well just all ship out, hope Jamaica descends into enough brutality and criminality that the outside world is bothered to respond and then hope for the US, UK and others to come in, kick the door in and wipe out the dons and connected politicians. Either that or hope for a near Rwanda-type traumatic event which somehow manages to wipe out the majority of dons and criminals and leave those remaining far to weak to actually resist proper law enforcement.

[Willi]

This really is the pipe dream...based on how many years of adult suffrage history in Jamdung.

[Willi]

Everything copacetic. We can agree to disagree.

Half of those in parliament now are LESS qualified in my mind to serve than the people you dismiss.

You have JP and you have JP. The unsung heros are quietly doing the work that hold up communities in Jamaica. They seek no gold, they want no fame, they know those things are just in vain. They seek no praie, nor honours too, their only motto is to their own selves be true!

I know some of these people. Unfortunately many are getting old and checking out!

[Baddaz]

Everything copacetic. We can agree to disagree.

Half of those in parliament now are LESS qualified in my mind to serve than the people you dismiss.

You have JP and you have JP. The unsung heros are quietly doing the work that hold up communities in Jamaica. They seek no gold, they want no fame, they know those things are just in vain. They seek no praie, nor honours too, their only motto is to their own selves be true!

I know some of these people. Unfortunately many are getting old and checking out!

we can agree to disagree but we have to know what we are disagreeing on...

sorry if it appears that i'm being dismissive of the jps, not my intent... as you correctly stated, there are jps and there are JPs... i have family member who is a real JP and i know the JPs toil out of the spotlight and perform their civic duties responsibly...

yes, its possible some may be more qualified than some MPs... however, like i said not everyone is for representational politics further reducing the pool of available talent... hope you have no problem with that assertion...

we both agree that the condition in jamaica, urgently needs an upgrade... we both agree that most of the politicians are tainted... we disagree to the extent some are, and whether some (namely peter phillips) can overcome any degree of tainting...

you and i agree that reggaemike has good points... where we disagree is whether his points can be implemented in jamaica under the current system of govt seeing that his points aren't even on the radar by those currently elected and in a position to change...

at least i offered a solution, you and reggaemike go to jamaica get elected and you will have my vote and i will even work for y'all campaign so that the change we desire can be a reality...

suh wi good, just some minor disagreements... nuh cup nuh bruk, nuh coffee nuh spill...

[Willi]

Yuh think mi a Dudley Thompson??? LoL

We all are ineligle to run unless we reside in Jam for at least 1 year after going back!

Worse if yuh ah non-CWealth citzen. R-Mike safe, him a Cyanadian. Dem nuh get resticted.

[Gamma]

you mean a benevolent dictator?