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  • #91
    =ReggaeMike;219137]In response to both you and Don1, I will point out that reforming the system is a distraction to the real problem - the people in it. As I pointed out before, many other systems around the world have been tried and in each and every case a corrupt bunch of people have managed to subvert it. Cuba the early 1900s had a constitution very much like Americas and even had term-limits before the Americans and what difference did it make? Well they got Batista running the show from behind the throne to avoid the term-limits problem (imagine Bruce or Portia running the show with Ken Baugh/Daryl Vaz or Omar Davies as their puppets - it would be even worse because the real leaders would be unaccountable) and then they got Batista formally running the show as president. In the Philippines we had Ferdinand Marcos and his wife of the many shoes. In Pakistan we got military type folks taking over and in some countries in Africa we got apartheid in one country and various dictators in others. In Germany they once had a constitution (the Weimar constitution) so progressive that one of it's provisions was that every university graduate was to be given a copy of the constitution itself upon graduation - guess who subverted that?
    It's gonna take people to reform the system...we can't get away from that stubborn fact. I agree that people are the problem...we are so corrupt that we can mess up any system.

    However jamaica being so top down imho... a couple people of goodwill at the very top can make a tremendous difference...start us down that long road back to civility.

    Waiting for an enlightened leader is partly what got us here. Remember who was being called Joshua and shown as a sort of messiah figure?

    It is true that enlightened rulers can come about, but waiting for our equivalent of Tsar Alexander II might be a long time in waiting (and it might never happen - remember Alexander II appeared 240 years into his dynasty and about 120-130 years after the last fairly good ruler Peter the Great). Plus no enlightened leader to my knowledge has ever emerged in a system over which they did not have great or absolute control (think Lincoln and Alexander II). At this point we would have to be waiting for an enlightened don to emerge and then for said don to scale back the activities of the garrisons and allow the politicians that he thinks are enlightened to run the show. It is hard to see how it could work in reverse, because as I think you and Don1 have pointed out the garrisons now control the MPs and not the other way around.
    I don't believe in waiting...I believe in calling out the demons among us for what they are and demanding change....supporting those few who have some commitment to reform.

    So if that is the way it is going to be then we might as well just all ship out, hope Jamaica descends into enough brutality and criminality that the outside world is bothered to respond and then hope for the US, UK and others to come in, kick the door in and wipe out the dons and connected politicians. Either that or hope for a near Rwanda-type traumatic event which somehow manages to wipe out the majority of dons and criminals and leave those remaining far to weak to actually resist proper law enforcement.
    Failure is not an option...whether we live a yard or foreign...everyman can du sumpting fi help....if is even 1 pickney yuh help progress.

    The self government movement came out of the diaspora...NYC to be exact...with the Jamaica Progressive League...Adolphe Roberts et al

    It could be that the diaspora may have to lead the needed reform.... once again.
    TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

    Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

    D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

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    • #92
      ah nuff chess piece Bruce have.. wid all sort of name..

      heh, heh..

      Comment


      • #93
        Tings really bad when that's the best you can do.

        Comment


        • #94
          Nuh need nuh bettah..

          Nuh clown unnuh clowning ?

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Maudib View Post
            Nuh need nuh bettah..

            Nuh clown unnuh clowning ?
            Whatever you're being paid you're underpaid truss me. not even Bruce beleive half the things you say. Right now the question is how does he do a Vietnam: Declare victory and retreat. Help him with that then you will trully earn you supper.Until then my china offrer is still on the table.

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            • #96
              heh heh!


              BLACK LIVES MATTER

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              • #97
                Drivah seh him have a team dat is committed.. him nuh need nuh more help dan dat...

                Well dat and bout 1/2 Billion US...

                End of di day... money talks...money and organization... suh di ting set..

                Comment


                • #98
                  da charlie ya sound like him wi swim inna a toilet if Brucey Bway tell him fi do it.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Gamma View Post
                    you mean a benevolent dictator?
                    I suppose, but even then most benevolent dictators in history had some kind of underlying ideology. So Tsar Alexander II wanted to make his realm stronger and Castro had communism. That isn't to say either was saintly during his rule, but at least they had some kind of goal which they figured might be achieved through providing some good things to people like freedom (for the serfs) and education (for the Cubans).

                    What would a don's goal be though? They ain't no communists, nor are they nationalists in the sense of Alexander II.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Don1 View Post
                      It's gonna take people to reform the system...we can't get away from that stubborn fact. I agree that people are the problem...we are so corrupt that we can mess up any system.

                      However jamaica being so top down imho... a couple people of goodwill at the very top can make a tremendous difference...start us down that long road back to civility.
                      Whether it was top-down or not, the corruption in the system is too much. A couple of people with goodwill at the very top can only make a certain amount of difference unless they are also ruthless and have a lot of "backative". Otherwise whoever they appoint to run things in various areas will face delays, or worse death.


                      I don't believe in waiting...I believe in calling out the demons among us for what they are and demanding change....supporting those few who have some commitment to reform.
                      But then what about the fact that basically we have to wait for an enlightened don since it is now the dons who control the politicians and not vice versa. Basically the "very top" is now the dons, not the MPs. And to paraphrase ol' Bob: ♪♫ ♪ "I don't want to wait in vain" fi a good don. ♫ ♪


                      Failure is not an option...whether we live a yard or foreign...everyman can du sumpting fi help....if is even 1 pickney yuh help progress.
                      Truer words never spoken.

                      The self government movement came out of the diaspora...NYC to be exact...with the Jamaica Progressive League...Adolphe Roberts et al

                      It could be that the diaspora may have to lead the needed reform.... once again.
                      Except the diaspora needs to have links inside the country to do it. It won't make an difference appealing to the current lot of politicians because they know on which side their bread is buttered.

                      Comment


                      • =ReggaeMike;219290]Whether it was top-down or not, the corruption in the system is too much. A couple of people with goodwill at the very top can only make a certain amount of difference unless they are also ruthless and have a lot of "backative". Otherwise whoever they appoint to run things in various areas will face delays, or worse death.

                        If one is at the top...by definition one has backative and can effect change...positive or negative.
                        But then what about the fact that basically we have to wait for an enlightened don since it is now the dons who control the politicians and not vice versa. Basically the "very top" is now the dons, not the MPs. And to paraphrase ol' Bob: ♪♫ ♪ "I don't want to wait in vain" fi a good don. ♫ ♪
                        I don't believe in dons...enlightened or not.





                        Except the diaspora needs to have links inside the country to do it. It won't make an difference appealing to the current lot of politicians because they know on which side their bread is buttered.
                        I agree, The diaspora does have links...but has to build independent organizations in Jamaica.
                        TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                        Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                        D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Don1 View Post
                          If one is at the top...by definition one has backative and can effect change...positive or negative.
                          Well there is at the top and then there is at the TOP. As you have pointed out Golding at this point seems to be only figuratively at the top (i.e. "top puppet" not “sock puppet”) but the dons are the ones who are really at the TOP.


                          I don't believe in dons...enlightened or not.
                          Me neither, but can't see any politicians who have links with dons being able to control them.






                          I agree, The diaspora does have links...but has to build independent organizations in Jamaica.
                          Re-colonize Jamaica with decent people you mean.

                          Failing a push by the diaspora (the more desirable option) maybe we can hope for something along the lines of Kampuchea/Cambodia. I mean that country came back from the pits of Hell to be a half-decent country today. Pol Pot and his cronies managed to execute and starve over a 1 million Cambodian people (1/7th of the population) in just 4 years. Then Vietnam rescued them and years later the UN helped make the place a functioning state again. Obviously I wouldn't want the equivalent of Pol Pot, but intervention would be the ultimate backative for any set of leaders who would wish to begin the change in society and cultured needed to brink Jamaica back from the brink.

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