Hell breaks loose in West Kingston

[Karl]

Brethren if thugs use people as human shields and fire at cops, the cops should not return fire? The thugs are the ones who should be held responsible for any injuries as a result of their actions. If you come to visit my house and you suddenly decide to fire at cops, then I can not blame the police for responding appropriately when their lives are at stake.

Thank you, boss!

[Karl]

I wasn't talking about yesterday's incident, I was referring to the following comment.

"If police receive fire from a building they have every right to unload on that structure."

...and that is the right of any man! You are shot at and you can return fire? Return fire! ...until you are safe! You if it means a million shots to keep those who would take your life -down! ...then one million shots it is!

[Karl]

it's not easy one bit. i understand what they have to go thru. and what the state has forced them to go thru. but i cannot justify the killing of persons by our police when they have total control of the situation.

i just touched on that "selling to criminals" issue on a post below.

You have never been under fire. There is never total control. There is control...but never total.

You never ever know for certain how the 'enemy' will react. You never ever know if the 'innocent' is acting...an enemy putting on a show! You need to have eyes that can see 360 and reflexes that are hair-trigger...as you just never know!

I will tell you if you are in the wrong place...under the gun...no moves that could possible give...communicate wrong intentions. The person behind the gun wants to live beyond the instant moment...and cannot afford to be second when it is kill or be killed.

I think if more persons understand that the cops would be given less occasions to, think on this? ...involuntary 'open up'! In certain circumstances the training to be cool calm and collected goes out the window and the training and animal instinct that aids survival 'kicks in'! When that happens everyone is in danger...even the cop, as the cop's reaction, as it is for the 'enemy' can set off a series of reactions that means 'hell and brimstone' all around.

I have been under the gun 3 times as a New York cab driver and although my brain worked...it was only after everything returned to normal that real sense (awareness) returned. You just react...freeze as happened once or just lightning fast.., have to report that in the latter 2 instances I was down the road for 10s of yards before I even realised I had moved. Imagine if I had a gun? Just as quickly it most likely would be 'emptied'.

[Mosiah]

Karl, don't be ridiculous! There are situations when the cops have TOTAL CONTROL! That is, the suspects do not have any guns, hAve their hands up, are on their knees begging for their lives! THAT IS TOTAL CONTROL!!!

I WILL NEVER AGREE TO POLICEMEN A EAT DEM FOOD LIKE DAT! NEVER!!!!

[Mosiah]

Mek dem stay deh!

[Mosiah]

The comments to this article are very interesting. And depressing.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/glean...#disqus_thread

[Sir X]

LOL ...why dem tek my tone ? Dont be depressed , when human rights organizations in and out of Jamaica decide to fix the real problems and not hide behind band aid solution , you will see the ground swell with support.

You guys fail to realise that we live in a narco political enviroment that require serious attention and it starts and end with having a constitution that serves all its people , not some.We (the citizens) are at war with the state and dons.

It should not serve only the elitist who have a visa , or the DONS who dont need them , but poor people who dont have a voice and who are pawns in this war.

From what I hear ,

1)People want MPS to reside in thier areas.

2)People want MPs who dont have a chance or choice to show favour to a constituency when elected as P.M.

3)People want term limits.

Step up !

Running behind the police questionaing every murder , exacerbates the problem when everyone knows , they are the thread holding this corrupted nation together , yes with all thier faults.

Again we are at war , with our state( MPs and Dons) ! What can you do to help?

Let me add , you advocacy does have its place, its just that Jamaica demands more.

[Rockman]

...and tougher being the guy that has to deal with the cop.
NOT YOU..but it is so easy for we to stake out a moral stance on the Dudus matter, yet have an entirely different one regarding extrajudicial killings, surely the correlation between corruption in Govt and corruption in agents of the Govt is not lost...
Gosh, that eroneous instruction Wolfe gave to the Kraal jury; if you believe Adams and his men where fired on when they drove up...,you can't find them guilty of murdering the people in the house.
Not a word from the great legal minds in Ja, in fact he was recently given some leadership role in handling complaints against police..., the wolfe given the role to protect the sheep.The whole process has been compromised.



Blessed

[Rudi]

The comments to this article are very interesting. And depressing.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/glean...#disqus_thread

When I tell unuh that Jamaica is screwed for generations because of the deliberate creation of this enclave unuh think is joke. A certain politician now trying to sanitize his lagacy should be put on trial if Jamaicans had any guts but they don't. However, this Dudus affair might take a lot of people down cause the President aint going out like that.
By the way followers of the chessmaster How's that new and different thing working out for yah so far?Apologies to Sarah Palin.

[Karl]

Karl, don't be ridiculous! There are situations when the cops have TOTAL CONTROL! That is, the suspects do not have any guns, hAve their hands up, are on their knees begging for their lives! THAT IS TOTAL CONTROL!!!

I WILL NEVER AGREE TO POLICEMEN A EAT DEM FOOD LIKE DAT! NEVER!!!!

You think a person on his knees begging for mercy is totally under control? You are mad!

How do you determine that a person on his knees begging for mercy is not armed? ...and the begging is not an act? ...and how do you determine that someone surrounded by a million guns trained on him/her has not the mind and the power of determination to attempt harming even one person at the apparent risk of sure death? ...and would you like to even consider self the subject of that persons focus? ...would you drop your guard?

The total control can never even be achieved when a person is "cuffed" or in that awful device used to restraint the mentally ill.

There is total control but only if the subject is, drugged into helplessness...and in resitraints.

Mosiah - You have never worked as a cop or have had reason to delve into that type work. I have been fascinated by that type 'work' for a long time...and have , in the past, spent much time speaking with and attempting to put myself in the shoes of the persons who do that type work. It has had me know the cop has to do the impossible - be on high alert at all times...including times when 'all seem to be non-threatening"!

It is the uninformed or uncaring who thinks on the type situations in which the cop could fine self who does not realise the effects of the 'work' on the psyche.

I would tell you, do not act in a manner that causes such persons to feel threatened. The perception of threat to such persons is, reality of threat. Under such circumstances actions to protect life and limb kicks in!

[Lazie]

When I tell unuh that Jamaica is screwed for generations because of the deliberate creation of this enclave unuh think is joke. A certain politician now trying to sanitize his lagacy should be put on trial if Jamaicans had any guts but they don't. However, this Dudus affair might take a lot of people down cause the President aint going out like that.
By the way followers of the chessmaster How's that new and different thing working out for yah so far?Apologies to Sarah Palin.

Why apologize, you both sound alike!

[Lazie]

...and that is the right of any man! You are shot at and you can return fire? Return fire! ...until you are safe! You if it means a million shots to keep those who would take your life -down! ...then one million shots it is!

Karl you are the creator of the BUD policy, there is no need trying to have a discussion with you on this issue. Just remember you cannot expect a different result by doing the same foolishness.

[Rudi]

Poor conflicted soul. Found any new legal opinions yet to defend the indefensible? Again I ask how is that garrison transformation, anti corruption, crime and murder reduction thing going? When people were being killed left right and centre in PNP time you glibly referred to them as the Murder Board (quite funny actually). I am surprised that you cant come up with a name for this lot since they have surpassed the murder board. I am surprised. You either don't know or don't want to know how compromised this crew is. Not to worry though Dudus(or the US) soon mek unuh know.

[Lazie]

Poor conflicted soul. Found any new legal opinions yet to defend the indefensible? Again I ask how is that garrison transformation, anti corruption, crime and murder reduction thing going? When people were being killed left right and centre in PNP time you glibly referred to them as the Murder Board (quite funny actually). I am surprised that you cant come up with a name for this lot since they have surpassed the murder board. I am surprised. You either don't know or don't want to know how compromised this crew is. Not to worry though Dudus(or the US) soon mek unuh know.

Just stick with the Sarah Palin impersonation, yuh have it just right. All of a sudden yuh going rogue now. Pretty soon you'll be telling us you're a tea bagger.

Why were they called Murder Board? It had nothing to do with people being killed it had to do with how they were killing the economy.

[Karl]

Karl you are the creator of the BUD policy, there is no need trying to have a discussion with you on this issue. Just remember you cannot expect a different result by doing the same foolishness.

Yes! ...and YES!
...and your stance, now?