National Carrier staus is Caribbean Airlines' prize

[Don1]

YAAAWWNNN again...

you have offered nothing credible with regards the divestment of Air Jamaica (typical?!)...

your arguments are as flimsy as the JALPA bid and therefore warrant no further scrutiny...

I have posted comprehensively on the subject... my own opinions and opinions of other observers and thought leaders in the country.

all you have done is parrot the party line....offering nothing of originality.

then again that's the job of a tribalist...keep it up!

[Comment]

I have posted comprehensively on the subject... my own opinions and opinions of other observers and thought leaders in the country.

all you have done is parrot the party line....offering nothing of originality.

then again that's the job of a tribalist...keep it up!

yes... Duplicitous1...posted with breathtaking dis-ingenuity...

the unfortunate truth is that the JALPA bid was submitted late and so was disqualified but even if it were not...it is still not a credible bid.

there are two things I have come to realize about you Don1..one is you are pretty stupid (ironically it your intransigent loyalties which enables your foolish rhetoric )...

and two...for a self professed homophobe I find it hilariously illuminating the way you love a) bananas and b) rolling on your back with your mouth open and your legs spreadeagled...LOL!!!

[Don1]

yes... Duplicitous1...posted with breathtaking dis-ingenuity...

the unfortunate truth is that the JALPA bid was submitted late and so was disqualified but even if it were not...it is still not a credible bid.

there are two things I have come to realize about you Don1..one is you are pretty stupid (ironically it your intransigent loyalties which enables your foolish rhetoric )...

and two...for a self professed homophobe I find it hilariously illuminating the way you love a) bananas and b) rolling on your back with your mouth open and your legs spreadeagled...LOL!!!

LoL!

Look like mi uncova ah nest ah fassy.... wat away dem love mixup homo bizniz wid any likkle ting. Man ah talk bout airline an dem bring in ********************bwoy tings.... ah suh it bun yuh yute?

dis ah wan new species... ah Tribal Fassy ... LoL!

nasty

[Comment]

LoL!

Look like mi uncova ah nest ah fassy.... wat away dem love mixup homo bizniz wid any likkle ting. Man ah talk bout airline an dem bring in ********************bwoy tings.... ah suh it bun yuh yute?

dis ah wan new species... ah Tribal Fassy ... LoL!

nasty

LOL... is you love lie down like gyal...

[Willi]

Let's cut the emotional and predetermined conclusion type of discussion and argue from FACT. We know you dont like Brucie long time, so will pounce on anything to say he is wrong. This whole Jalpa thing stinks of poilitical manipulation and counter manipulations anyway. PNP and JLP fighting in the background.

Now the very same offer document "The AJ divestment project" presentation by the IFC is publicly available from the site : http://airjamaicatransaction.org/

In page 12, it states that the SH&E consultants have found that if AJ had a similar cost structure to the most efficient airline in the region, ie 8.8cents CASM (cost per available seat-mile), the Operating margin...ie profit before tax and financing charges... would be a whopping 42%. At the time the document was current (2008) AJ's CASM was 14.1c, so it was running an Operational LOSS, as even 12.3c would only give a 1% margin.

Now I heard that there was low hanging fruit allowing a relatively painless 17% cut that would imply a CASM of about 11.7c or a 7-8% Oper margin. Not sure if any of this was done, as the staff count is still just over 1600, and was over 2,000 a few years back (say 3 years ago).

Now, this is not the end of the story, as money is needed to finance working capital growth and so cash flow needs forces at least line of credit type of current liabilities and so Oper margin or Ebitda is NOT sufficient to a ensure solvency. A need to properly capitalize the airline is Critical. This is why I say Jalpa is out of their depth. They need to raise at least US100m MINIMUM (over and about the less than US$20m they will get in severance participation), as oil shocks, 9-11 type events, or just industrial action could permanently cripple them. Perhaps the PM is doing them the biggest favour in not allowing them to throw away their hard earned severance money.

Here is the conundrum...to make profits, they would have to viciously cut staff, but that cuts the severance participation rate. If they dont, they cant make a decent Operating margin (>15% at a minimum). But then again if they do cut, being a small airline, they may vastly compromise safety and that would effectively kill them.

The only way out of this alpha trap is to acquire scale, so that they can have optimal central staff to cover all the bases and then this central cost can be spread over many routes and planes and so minimize the cost impact. Or the workers can work for peanuts and take more shares in the fledgling entity.

[Don1]

LOL... is you love lie down like gyal...

yute...when argument reach yuh bout any matta whey yuh tribe ah deal wid an expose yuh limited likkle tribal positions.. yuh resort to personal attack

mi dun si tru yuh yuh likkle eediat mentaliity lang time

guh fine yuh likkle fassy bredrin dem an deal wid dem... mi nuh ave tuh much intress ina fi yuh species...

needa di tribal part...nor di fassy side

[Comment]

yute...when argument reach yuh bout any matta whey yuh tribe ah deal wid an expose yuh limited likkle tribal positions.. yuh resort to personal attack

mi dun si tru yuh yuh likkle eediat mentaliity lang time

guh fine yuh likkle fassy bredrin dem an deal wid dem... mi nuh ave tuh much intress ina fi yuh species...

needa di tribal part...nor di fassy side

but you have not answered this...

"the unfortunate truth is that the JALPA bid was submitted late and so was disqualified but even if it were not...it is still not a credible bid."

except to mouth some rubbish about party line and tribal politics...

"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it (the PNP), ignorance may deride it (you!!..), but in the end; there it is." Winston Churchill.

there is NOTHING to defend in JALPA'S bid..it just suits your anti JLP/Bruce Golding stance to do so.

as an interesting aside...

o•ver•com•pen•sate
verb,-sat•ed, -sat•ing.
2.
to exhibit psychological overcompensation; striving to overcome an innate characteristic or condition through overt, opposite behavior: e.g. The idiot who is anal enough to call himself Don1 may be overcompensating with his incessant and unwarranted gay bashing, and be a profoundly homoerotic person beneath the facade.

LOL LOL!!!

and if you take such mischief as seriously as you obviously take yourself then you are truly beyond help...

[Don1]

but you have not answered this...

"the unfortunate truth is that the JALPA bid was submitted late and so was disqualified but even if it were not...it is still not a credible bid."

except to mouth some rubbish about party line and tribal politics...

"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it (the PNP), ignorance may deride it (you!!..), but in the end; there it is." Winston Churchill.

there is NOTHING to defend in JALPA'S bid..it just suits your anti JLP/Bruce Golding stance to do so.

as an interesting aside...

o•ver•com•pen•sate
verb,-sat•ed, -sat•ing.
2.
to exhibit psychological overcompensation; striving to overcome an innate characteristic or condition through overt, opposite behavior: e.g. The idiot who is anal enough to call himself Don1 may be overcompensating with his incessant and unwarranted gay bashing, and be a profoundly homoerotic person beneath the facade.

LOL LOL!!!

and if you take such mischief as seriously as you obviously take yourself then you are truly beyond help...

Interesting juxtaposition.

The discussion started out and proceeded on the basis of analysing the airline divestment...or rather closure.

For some strange reason you choose, out of the blue, to introduce a homosexual angle ..... why so? what does one have to to with the other? NOTHING.

Clearly you are aggrieved at my prior posts on the entirely separate issue of homosexual rights and policy.... as you have every right to be.... just as I have an inalienable right to hold and express my viewpoints.

That discussion however is out of place here... you are entirely too emotional, most likely because you are a member of that subject gay community and are consequently upset at someone holding my particular views.

I see no need to combine the two issues in the same thread.... they both hit too close to home for you.... one impacting your tribal leaning...and the other your more "personal" lifestyle orientation.

Hush.

[Don1]

Let's cut the emotional and predetermined conclusion type of discussion and argue from FACT. We know you dont like Brucie long time, so will pounce on anything to say he is wrong. This whole Jalpa thing stinks of poilitical manipulation and counter manipulations anyway. PNP and JLP fighting in the background.

Now the very same offer document "The AJ divestment project" presentation by the IFC is publicly available from the site : http://airjamaicatransaction.org/

In page 12, it states that the SH&E consultants have found that if AJ had a similar cost structure to the most efficient airline in the region, ie 8.8cents CASM (cost per available seat-mile), the Operating margin...ie profit before tax and financing charges... would be a whopping 42%. At the time the document was current (2008) AJ's CASM was 14.1c, so it was running an Operational LOSS, as even 12.3c would only give a 1% margin.

Now I heard that there was low hanging fruit allowing a relatively painless 17% cut that would imply a CASM of about 11.7c or a 7-8% Oper margin. Not sure if any of this was done, as the staff count is still just over 1600, and was over 2,000 a few years back (say 3 years ago).

Now, this is not the end of the story, as money is needed to finance working capital growth and so cash flow needs forces at least line of credit type of current liabilities and so Oper margin or Ebitda is NOT sufficient to a ensure solvency. A need to properly capitalize the airline is Critical. This is why I say Jalpa is out of their depth. They need to raise at least US100m MINIMUM (over and about the less than US$20m they will get in severance participation), as oil shocks, 9-11 type events, or just industrial action could permanently cripple them. Perhaps the PM is doing them the biggest favour in not allowing them to throw away their hard earned severance money.

Here is the conundrum...to make profits, they would have to viciously cut staff, but that cuts the severance participation rate. If they dont, they cant make a decent Operating margin (>15% at a minimum). But then again if they do cut, being a small airline, they may vastly compromise safety and that would effectively kill them.

The only way out of this alpha trap is to acquire scale, so that they can have optimal central staff to cover all the bases and then this central cost can be spread over many routes and planes and so minimize the cost impact. Or the workers can work for peanuts and take more shares in the fledgling entity.

Willi...all this is moot IF what is being lately reported is true. The airline is NOT being sold as a going concern it seems.

Air Jamaica is to be liquidated and the prime pieces (route rights & flag carrier status) transferred to an operator in exchange for a promise to operate certain routes at a certain level of service....perhaps there is to be some GOJ equity position in CAL as well.

[Karl]

Let's cut the emotional and predetermined conclusion type of discussion and argue from FACT. We know you dont like Brucie long time, so will pounce on anything to say he is wrong.

You know no such thing! ...simple it is not true that I do not like the man. I do not know him to form an opinion one way or the other.

This whole Jalpa thing stinks of poilitical manipulation and counter manipulations anyway. PNP and JLP fighting in the background.

How do you see political manipulation by the PNP when its comments on this issue are muted?

Now the very same offer document "The AJ divestment project" presentation by the IFC is publicly available from the site : http://airjamaicatransaction.org/

In page 12, it states that the SH&E consultants have found that if AJ had a similar cost structure to the most efficient airline in the region, ie 8.8cents CASM (cost per available seat-mile), the Operating margin...ie profit before tax and financing charges... would be a whopping 42%. At the time the document was current (2008) AJ's CASM was 14.1c, so it was running an Operational LOSS, as even 12.3c would only give a 1% margin.

Now I heard that there was low hanging fruit allowing a relatively painless 17% cut that would imply a CASM of about 11.7c or a 7-8% Oper margin. Not sure if any of this was done, as the staff count is still just over 1600, and was over 2,000 a few years back (say 3 years ago).

Now, this is not the end of the story, as money is needed to finance working capital growth and so cash flow needs forces at least line of credit type of current liabilities and so Oper margin or Ebitda is NOT sufficient to a ensure solvency. A need to properly capitalize the airline is Critical. This is why I say Jalpa is out of their depth. They need to raise at least US100m MINIMUM (over and about the less than US$20m they will get in severance participation), as oil shocks, 9-11 type events, or just industrial action could permanently cripple them. Perhaps the PM is doing them the biggest favour in not allowing them to throw away their hard earned severance money.

Here is the conundrum...to make profits, they would have to viciously cut staff, but that cuts the severance participation rate. If they dont, they cant make a decent Operating margin (>15% at a minimum). But then again if they do cut, being a small airline, they may vastly compromise safety and that would effectively kill them.

The only way out of this alpha trap is to acquire scale, so that they can have optimal central staff to cover all the bases and then this central cost can be spread over many routes and planes and so minimize the cost impact. Or the workers can work for peanuts and take more shares in the fledgling entity.

...and what is considere 'peanuts'? ...would that 'peanuts' be better than nothing?

...but we digress - What in the document says the necessary decisions and actions to make the company leaner and more efficient cannnot be done? ...what is there you know that says properly managed the airline cannot be profitable? ...

...what tells you that the difficult decisions that MUST bE TAKEN to woo the needed capital would not be taken?

Would you...yes you Willi or me or anyone on this board...if charge not insist on the creation of an entity that made 'business sense'?

Or is it only you have sense and any other person or group of persons must be fools?

The simple question is can the airline be made profitable?

If the answer is yes...then it all depends on decisions taken and actions engaged in! What is Brucie's problem?

Why the littany of lies?

It is simple. It is in our (Jamaica's) interest on multiple levels to have a locally owned airline. - If Brucie knows what it takes...what is needed to create a viable entity, we have to believe he would have created that airline.

If Brucie has pre-determined conditions on model he would be comfortable with that would allow him to sell AirJ to locals he should lay them out and say to those locals interested - meet these demands and the airline is yours to make into viable entity or to fail! Wash his hands...sign off on the transaction and seh tuh di pilot dem or whatever local entity - Yuh pan yuh own!

No need to concoct lies! ...about needing to satisfy for the islands tourist industry and other 'horse dead and cow fat lying nonsense'. Just a simple meet these conditions you are home...do not meet them and we are going to close down the operations!

Then there is the commonsense argument that he never answers - If he is as he says removing AirJ from the 'GOJ books'...what sensible reason he has for closing down the airline if he gets a dollar for the people and rids himself (the taxpayer) of any further obligations?

It certainly would be an ass who is receiving value...but prefers and rationalizes that receiving nothing of value is a positive?

...or even in a worse case scenario can just wash his hands and walk away...rids self of 'headaches'...obligations and has a willing entity to 'take' the ' headaches' off his hands, frees him to deploy resources elsewhere and that is not seen as a plus?!

Brucie needs to speak with 'straight tongue'!

[Comment]

Interesting juxtaposition.

The discussion started out and proceeded on the basis of analysing the airline divestment...or rather closure.

For some strange reason you choose, out of the blue, to introduce a homosexual angle ..... why so? what does one have to to with the other? NOTHING.

Clearly you are aggrieved at my prior posts on the entirely separate issue of homosexual rights and policy.... as you have every right to be.... just as I have an inalienable right to hold and express my viewpoints.

That discussion however is out of place here... you are entirely too emotional, most likely because you are a member of that subject gay community and are consequently upset at someone holding my particular views.

I see no need to combine the two issues in the same thread.... they both hit too close to home for you.... one impacting your tribal leaning...and the other your more "personal" lifestyle orientation.

Hush.

sigh...

it was a joke moron... there can be no real seriousness on an obscure website populated by characters hiding behind anonymous monikers... because what we say here is of little consequence...

but obviously you take such mischief very seriously and yourself way too seriously and are therefore truly beyond help...

di man a talk bout "inalienable right" an "emotion" an "lifestyle orientation" to rahtid...LOL!!!LOL!!!

[Don1]

sigh...

it was a joke moron... there can be no real seriousness on an obscure website populated by characters hiding behind anonymous monikers... because what we say here is of little consequence...

but obviously you take such mischief very seriously and yourself way too seriously and are therefore truly beyond help...

di man a talk bout "inalienable right" an "emotion" an "lifestyle orientation" to rahtid...LOL!!!LOL!!!

Don't deny yourself and your brethren ...be proud of what you are...LoL!

Also.... Feel free to excuse yourself, your lifestyle choices and and your beliefs from the so called "obscure website" which you have taken an interest in.

You will not be missed.

[Willi]

what are these litany of lies you keep referring to?

Are these your imagination? Please list them.

2nd, you did not comprehend a word I said, did you? Or else how you explain asking me things I already answered. Is the pilot dem who said they will retain most if not all of the staff, not me and I guess they will bneed to to get their severance money!!!!

Not everyone born with the same talents. I cant help you landing a plane, and based on what I have seen from the Jalpa people, executing a transaction seems to be something they will botch and perhaps even the selection of proper management later on. This is irrespective of wheter Bruce and crew make the most optimal decision on AJ. Remember mi bredrin, I do deal valuation for a living, so yuh playing on my turf here. If it was Real Estate in the US, I would be deferring to you.

If the Govt wants to avid having to pay the likes of AA for airlift in the future, I can see why they will seek to get the guarantee from the closest but most reliable partner. Jalpa would be closest, but in my cursory evaluation of them, I dont think their bid will ensure the survivability of the airline. In a year or 2 they would die and their investment squandered. Where will Jamaica be then?

PLAIN TRUTH AND bad mannaz. I say this even though I have a clear emotional preference for Jalpa over CAL...it is not even close, but Jalpa is simply not cutting it. If I was a betting man, I would bet against them.

Karl, if you remove your emotional charge and look at it as an investment in a dispassionate manner, I think you will come to the same conclusion.

[Karl]

what are these litany of lies you keep referring to?

Are these your imagination? Please list them.

2nd, you did not comprehend a word I said, did you? Or else how you explain asking me things I already answered. Is the pilot dem who said they will retain most if not all of the staff, not me and I guess they will bneed to to get their severance money!!!!

Not everyone born with the same talents. I cant help you landing a plane, and based on what I have seen from the Jalpa people, executing a transaction seems to be something they will botch and perhaps even the selection of proper management later on. This is irrespective of wheter Bruce and crew make the most optimal decision on AJ. Remember mi bredrin, I do deal valuation for a living, so yuh playing on my turf here. If it was Real Estate in the US, I would be deferring to you.

If the Govt wants to avid having to pay the likes of AA for airlift in the future, I can see why they will seek to get the guarantee from the closest but most reliable partner. Jalpa would be closest, but in my cursory evaluation of them, I dont think their bid will ensure the survivability of the airline. In a year or 2 they would die and their investment squandered. Where will Jamaica be then?

PLAIN TRUTH AND bad mannaz. I say this even though I have a clear emotional preference for Jalpa over CAL...it is not even close, but Jalpa is simply not cutting it. If I was a betting man, I would bet against them.

Karl, if you remove your emotional charge and look at it as an investment in a dispassionate manner, I think you will come to the same conclusion.

I think I am dispassionate....and it is you who is not reading.
Look again and see what I said on what I expected Brucie's position to be...and I am saying that based on his two suitors i.e. CA and JALPA?

We do not have to go one step further than the choice between those two. End of story!

...as to Brucie's stories - Have you forgotten that I have been putting up the reports from the newspapers, JIS (which incidentally...yesterday you again mounted an excerpt) and RadioJamaica.com?

Brucie keeps giving various reasons why JALPA do not qualify - from no bid, then late bid, then unqualified bid...to his having to protect Jamaica and the tourist industry, to not giving away the assets for nothing, to keeping airlift %age...and a host of others.

It must be your emotions getting the better of you why you do not see...cannot remember, Brucie's twisting and turning and changing stance just about every time he opens his mouth?

[Peter R]

Huh???