Missing links in Beckles' Haiti analysis

[Jawge]

aha I guess mi too cryptic. But mi try fi run through history fi show di pint still. Di easiset way out is to say: cho dem racial and oppressive (whilst some of this may be true but not thwhole equation).

[Gamma]

iman, if you look around you will realise that this is changing...there are more and more nuclear families in the black communities ..... slavery was abolished LESS than 200 years ago...10 generations....

[Gamma]

who is it by and where can i obtain it?

[Jawge]

Think it came on history channel . Now fortunately for you I taped it. Are gonna be nice to me and not mock me anymore (noble ch.....) huh?

[Islandman]

Is that what the numbers say? There must be statistics on this.

Gamma, I know where you coming from and we must never forget the atrocities committed against us, but when I see people like Mugabe using that as an excuse to destroy his country it is really hard to take. In that case , the main issue (land distribution) clearly has its roots in European theft but did it have to result in Zimbabweans on the verge of starvation?

[Gamma]

ah..there is the rub....see mugabe for what and who he is...it is not different from how the church "justified" the enslavement of black people...see each for what it without losing sight of the bigger picture.

my intention is not for people to use it as a crutch, indeed, mi wish for my children is that they end up as better persons than me BUT i intend to make them VERY aware of thier history.

while we pretend that it did not happen, people will snicker behind our backs and call us ************************ in remembrance of a time when they did not have to hide and do it.

e.g. some people say why have a black history month..it is racist to promote the history of one ethnicity over the other....what this overlooks is that a majority of the contributions of black people to history was overlooked and just cited as "history". they did not have to say "white history" that went without saying. but then along comes the holocaust...no problem...make sure that it is taght in schools.

and so we buy that. the above observations are perhaps more relevant in north america.

[Gamma]

when have i ever not been nice to you...?

[Islandman]

Well pretendng it did not happen is asking for it to happen again so I would never subscribe to that.

And Black history month is very necessary, particularly in North America. As an example, I am currently preparing a presentation for Black History Month where I look at some of the parallels in black American and Afro Caribbean history and one part of it briefly compares Sam Sharpe and Nat Turner, two educated slaves who were also preachers and leaders who saw slavery for what it was and attempted to do something about it. (Interestingly both rebellions occured around 1831 too, maybe they were emailing each other?)

Well while working on this it occured to me that every Jamaican child knows who Sam Sharpe was, and there is a statue of him in the square where he was hanged. How many African Americans know who Nat Turner was? 10% is probably a high figure.

[Gamma]

that is part of my point...some will use it as a crutch but it is important for the information to be there......if you can identify the problem you have a better chance of finding a solution...e.g. affirmative action was necessary and in my humble opinion has made a difference...yes, in some instances it was abused BUT once again, the first to complain where those who had benefitted the most when black people had no chance!

[Exile]

Interesting stuff. But isn't religion a form of slavery? Just do as I say - no questions asked?

[1of1]

you don't think it was worth the risk in trade/money

[1of1]

i don't disagree, thats why I think we need to be bit more millitant in our thinking, instead of rolling over to whatever machinations that may exist/occur even if is just noise.

[Islandman]

Organized religion certainly incorporates some aspects of mental slavery.

[1of1]

well based on current history and the mindset of the people thats why i say that. If them did have jus a little emotion brain shackles woulda gone, more nationalism would be present, as mi say God Bless Jamaica, one time dat happen whole a wi nearly dead off

[Jawge]

No, the US was self contained. Haiti would be Gravy; in terms of controlling the trade that comes from there. The US had nothing to take on the British on the high seas.The British would inflict heavy losses on them. This would open up the door for returning and dividing up the continent between themselves and France (seeing that they couldn't control such a huge piece of real estate by themeselves). You speak of monitoring? Don't you think the British wre monitoring the US at the time? How do you think the British ruled the planet for 400 hundred years (tink ah so parson get him gown). would you want to lose the US with all its natural resources for an island (which you could not keep because you had no navy)? Why don't you try playing Civilization or Age of the Empires; may give you a first hand view of what things were like then.

There was even a bigger prize; which the US could not touch at the time: S. America. It was the British that came up with the what is known as the Monroe doctrine (to get Spain out of the region) who do you think enforced the Monroe doctrine until the US got mighty strong?
Stop looking at history like a street corner thing: Africans weren't starngers to trade and commerce. It's just that their empires were weaken (read about the raids on the Ghanaian trade routes and Mali too) and by theend of the 18th century fully under Europe's control. The British and French would make sure that not one ship from haiti would reach the African west coast (read what was done to Spain). Touissant was to be embarrased and humiliated to send a message.