when will we leave Babylon (England) behind??

[Don1]

...past time to dismiss the english queen as head of state and leave the ridiculous Commonwealth....strait.



Jamaica 'stripped'

Published: Sunday | November 29, 2009


Coore
AN AUTHOR of the country's Constitution has warned that Jamaicans might no longer enjoy the right of appeal to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council.

David Coore, the first chairman of the People's National Party (PNP) and one of the authors of the Constitution, has warned that the United Kingdom Parliament has changed the structure of the Privy Council and this could strip Jamaicans of the right of appeal.

"The Constitution had committed to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council as the country's final court of appeal. The English Parliament has made such a radical change by amending the law establishing the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council and which has just come into effect, that it can be legitimately contended that the Privy Council court which was put into our Constitution has been superseded by a new court, which, though bearing the same name, is substantially different from that which existed in 1962," Coore said.
He was speaking at the People's National Party Youth Organisation (PNPYO) 40th anniversary awards banquet at the Terra Nova Hotel last Thursday.

Serious problem
Said Coore: "This could raise a serious problem of constitutional law, with far-reaching consequences, because our Constitution committed to something called the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, but that to which we committed ourselves no longer exists in the form that it did when we made that commitment.

"It may well be the case that there is no longer anything to which our Constitution provision shall apply. The far-reaching consequences of that could be obvious," Coore said, as he called for the Government to replace the Privy Council with the Caribbean Court of Justice.

This issue has been a major source of disagreement between the PNP and the governing Jamaica Labour Party (JLP).
The PNP is adamant that Jamaica should abandon the Privy Council, but the JLP has argued that the people should decide the fate of the court by way of a referendum.

"We are in the ridiculous position that we are paying our share of the cost of the CCJ but only able to access its original jurisdiction, which is confined to trade disputes," Coore said.
He added: "We are in the ridiculous situation of paying for a court that we do not use, while claiming to be able to use a court that regards us as an unwanted burden and may no longer exist."

Honour commitments
Coore told the PNPYO that it should work closely with Generation 2000 (G2K), the young professionals' affiliate of the JLP, to pressure their parent parties to honour commitments for constitutional reform.
"Both youth organisations should join together to insist that their respective parties take the issue of constitutional reform seriously and act upon it," Coore said.

"There are many aspects of our Constitution that need to be rectified and brought into the 21st century," he said, pointing to removing the British queen as head of state as one desirable amendment.

"It is ridiculous for us in the 21st century to have as our head of state, a hereditary monarch of another country, to which we need to have a visa to enter and special permission to remain," Coore said. daraine.luton@gleanerjm.com

[Historian]

Might Not Happen Anytime Soon!!

"There are many aspects of our Constitution that need to be rectified and brought into the 21st century," he said, pointing to removing the British queen as head of state as one desirable amendment.

"It is ridiculous for us in the 21st century to have as our head of state, a hereditary monarch of another country, to which we need to have a visa to enter and special permission to remain," Coore said. daraine.luton@gleanerjm.com

I understand your point, Don1 (and David Coore’s as well). In fact, both Willi and I have, in the past, made posts on this forum about the irrrelevance of the British Commonwealth of Nations to Jamaica.

However, the necessary referendum leading to an amendment of our Constitution, thus guaranteeing genuine progress on these matters, might not happen anytime soon! Both the Privy Council and the British Crown as our Head of State are both enshrined in the Constitution of Jamaica, and I can assure you that the only way to make amendments is by way of a referendum, with a two-thirds majority being the only way that the Jamaican government can move forward on this.

Incidentally, do you follow developments in the wider Caribbean? If you do (and I suspect that you indeed do), then you’ve most likely seen the recent surprising results arising from Dr. Ralph Gonsalves’ commendable effort in St. Vincent & the Grenadines. I referred to this in another thread earlier today. Based on the overwhelming rejection in St Vincent’s referendum (and based on my information, Vincentians even rejected the idea of a new international airport (!!!), suggesting that it was not a priority at this time), I’m not sure if Bruce Golding will make a similar referendum effort in Jamaica, a place where his party governs by almost the slimmest of parliamentary majorities!

By the way, Gonsalves’ timing seemed politically perfect, as the 2009 Commonwealth meeting, which is being attended by Her Majesty, is being held in the fairly highly developed Caribbean nation that you sardonically referred to in the past as a country of “roti eaters”. Nevertheless, his attempt ended up being a slap in the face!

Regional leaders have in the past lost general elections based on referendum results. I suspect that Golding might choose to delay holding such a referendum in Jamaica until after the next general elections, constitutionally scheduled for the year 2012.

[Don1]

I understand your point, Don1 (and David Coore’s as well). In fact, both Willi and I have, in the past, made posts on this forum about the irrrelevance of the British Commonwealth of Nations to Jamaica.

However, the necessary referendum leading to an amendment of our Constitution, thus guaranteeing genuine progress on these matters, might not happen anytime soon! Both the Privy Council and the British Crown as our Head of State are both enshrined in the Constitution of Jamaica, and I can assure you that the only way to make amendments is by way of a referendum, with a two-thirds majority being the only way that the Jamaican government can move forward on this.

Incidentally, do you follow developments in the wider Caribbean? If you do (and I suspect that you indeed do), then you’ve most likely seen the recent surprising results arising from Dr. Ralph Gonsalves’ commendable effort in St. Vincent & the Grenadines. I referred to this in another thread earlier today. Based on the overwhelming rejection in St Vincent’s referendum (and based on my information, Vincentians even rejected the idea of a new international airport (!!!), suggesting that it was not a priority at this time), I’m not sure if Bruce Golding will make a similar referendum effort in Jamaica, a place where his party governs by almost the slimmest of parliamentary majorities!

By the way, Gonsalves’ timing seemed politically perfect, as the 2009 Commonwealth meeting, which is being attended by Her Majesty, is being held in the fairly highly developed Caribbean nation that you sardonically referred to in the past as a country of “roti eaters”. Nevertheless, his attempt ended up being a slap in the face!

Regional leaders have in the past lost general elections based on referendum results. I suspect that Golding might choose to delay holding such a referendum in Jamaica until after the next general elections, constitutionally scheduled for the year 2012.

I know and agree with you that the necessary and obvious constitutional changes will not happen anytime soon.

The two tribes have been jawboning about that for about 25 years and refuse to compromise...even though their positions are not irreconcilable.

The tribes are more concerned with maintaining or regaining power than operating in the nation's best interest.

Pathetic.

[Muadib]

"Comrades on the road to the 4th Term.."

lol !!

[Don1]

"Comrades on the road to the 4th Term.."

lol !!

yuh nuh have yuh man yuh cyan look fah?? tek whey yuhself.

[Hortical]

The group is known as the Commonwealth of Nations, and their prior title was the British Commonwealth. Queen Elizabeth II should not be the head of State, and that should be changed. There are some benefits to being a member of the Commonwealth. Member nations benefit through the Commonwealth Fund for Technical Cooperation, and the organization also promotes economic and social development and the alleviation of poverty.

[Gamma]

i must say however that i believe that there is a flaw in david coore's argument....it is simply this, i beleive that it does not matter whether the uk constitution changed the name or make up or compnent parts of what is the final court of appeal in the uk, the spirit of the law of the constitution would still remain to recognise this court as being the institution embedded in our constitution.

by example, you have opened an account with a bank, that bank is bought out by another bank and the name is changed. does that mean your account no longer exists even though you never had any dealings with the successor bank?

you university changed it's name, does that render your degree null and void?

somewhere along the line there may be changes in procedure etc. however, as long as the monarch remains the head of state, i do not see how that aspect of our consitution can be unilaterally changed by elements OUTSIDE of the jamaican legislature!

visa is a different something......

[Don1]

i must say however that i believe that there is a flaw in david coore's argument....it is simply this, i beleive that it does not matter whether the uk constitution changed the name or make up or compnent parts of what is the final court of appeal in the uk, the spirit of the law of the constitution would still remain to recognise this court as being the institution embedded in our constitution.

by example, you have opened an account with a bank, that bank is bought out by another bank and the name is changed. does that mean your account no longer exists even though you never had any dealings with the successor bank?

you university changed it's name, does that render your degree null and void?

somewhere along the line there may be changes in procedure etc. however, as long as the monarch remains the head of state, i do not see how that aspect of our consitution can be unilaterally changed by elements OUTSIDE of the jamaican legislature!

visa is a different something......

His legal argument is one thing...I'll leave that to the legal community to debate.

The real import of his piece to me was whether in this 21st century Jamaica should be hewing to the UK which is a third tier power with little to offer and even less interest in our welfare as we have zero strategic value for them.

We cannot even enter that place freely yet they should be the final arbiter of our fate?

It is beyond nonsensical.

[1of1]

England want to get rid of us long time, what yuh tink wi get "independence" fah

[Don1]

The group is known as the Commonwealth of Nations, and their prior title was the British Commonwealth. Queen Elizabeth II should not be the head of State, and that should be changed. There are some benefits to being a member of the Commonwealth. Member nations benefit through the Commonwealth Fund for Technical Cooperation, and the organization also promotes economic and social development and the alleviation of poverty.

Joke ting dat.

Jamaica has little to lose from removing itself from this rump called the Commonwealth. We get next to no benefit and it does have some cost element.
We have bilateral relations with the members of this group that have value to us...including the UK. That's all we need.

The so called Commonwealth is nothing but the UK indulging itself in a grandiose dream recalling a lost empire. ...and we are complicit in that illusion.

Ridiculous....it should be dismissed.

[Gamma]

i can tell you one thing for sure....any intention of being a viable offshore financial centre or registry will take a BIG hit on that score alone!

i believe that hong kong still has the prive council as its final court of appeal for related reasons.

[Don1]

i can tell you one thing for sure....any intention of being a viable offshore financial centre or registry will take a BIG hit on that score alone!

i believe that hong kong still has the prive council as its final court of appeal for related reasons.

Hong Kong's final court is the privy council? As it's a part of the Peoples Republic of China, I find that hard to believe.

Regardless of the offshore financial center issue I don't believe in Jamaica continuing under the UK's armpit any longer.

Barbados has a large offshore financial sector....do they now use or are they moving to use the CCJ as their final court?

[Gamma]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...cial_situation

believe me, this was CRITICAL.....too much was at stake! the barbados offshore centre is nto what i would call "large" when compared to even places like anguilla and nevis .... trust me when i say that barbados is perhaps the least likely to use the CCJ for it's offshore industry...before that they would enact legislation to deal with that differently (IMHO)

agian

[wbvs]

...past time to dismiss the english queen as head of state and leave the ridiculous Commonwealth....strait.



Jamaica 'stripped'

Published: Sunday | November 29, 2009


Coore
AN AUTHOR of the country's Constitution has warned that Jamaicans might no longer enjoy the right of appeal to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council.

David Coore, the first chairman of the People's National Party (PNP) and one of the authors of the Constitution, has warned that the United Kingdom Parliament has changed the structure of the Privy Council and this could strip Jamaicans of the right of appeal.

"The Constitution had committed to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council as the country's final court of appeal. The English Parliament has made such a radical change by amending the law establishing the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council and which has just come into effect, that it can be legitimately contended that the Privy Council court which was put into our Constitution has been superseded by a new court, which, though bearing the same name, is substantially different from that which existed in 1962," Coore said.
He was speaking at the People's National Party Youth Organisation (PNPYO) 40th anniversary awards banquet at the Terra Nova Hotel last Thursday.

Serious problem
Said Coore: "This could raise a serious problem of constitutional law, with far-reaching consequences, because our Constitution committed to something called the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, but that to which we committed ourselves no longer exists in the form that it did when we made that commitment.

"It may well be the case that there is no longer anything to which our Constitution provision shall apply. The far-reaching consequences of that could be obvious," Coore said, as he called for the Government to replace the Privy Council with the Caribbean Court of Justice.

This issue has been a major source of disagreement between the PNP and the governing Jamaica Labour Party (JLP).
The PNP is adamant that Jamaica should abandon the Privy Council, but the JLP has argued that the people should decide the fate of the court by way of a referendum.

"We are in the ridiculous position that we are paying our share of the cost of the CCJ but only able to access its original jurisdiction, which is confined to trade disputes," Coore said.
He added: "We are in the ridiculous situation of paying for a court that we do not use, while claiming to be able to use a court that regards us as an unwanted burden and may no longer exist."

Honour commitments
Coore told the PNPYO that it should work closely with Generation 2000 (G2K), the young professionals' affiliate of the JLP, to pressure their parent parties to honour commitments for constitutional reform.
"Both youth organisations should join together to insist that their respective parties take the issue of constitutional reform seriously and act upon it," Coore said.

"There are many aspects of our Constitution that need to be rectified and brought into the 21st century," he said, pointing to removing the British queen as head of state as one desirable amendment.

"It is ridiculous for us in the 21st century to have as our head of state, a hereditary monarch of another country, to which we need to have a visa to enter and special permission to remain," Coore said. daraine.luton@gleanerjm.com

Jamaica have no choice but to join the Caribbean Court of Appeal .
Barbados & Guyana already did .

[Gamma]

followed up on the barbados thing....and it is more cloudy than anything....it is still not clear to me whether it is the final court of appeal in barbados.