How to manage economic crisis and win an election

[Exile]

As usual ALL you can see is the obvious...and you want to talk about critical thinking? You really thought I post it because I thought this was the position Jamaica was in? You are the comedian now.

[Assasin]

Again it is not easy to lead any country in this time.

Well that is one man's view. It is not easy to be nationalistic when everybody around you is tribal. Obama is a prime example, at some stage if you want things done you have to act in your own interest.

Take Bruce Golding crime plan for example. It may not be perfect but the PNP agreed on it publicly and then turn around and kill it in committees. Take Obama healtcare for example, he want it passed and the Republicans saying if it pass without them he will never get any support from them on anything else.

You can only try but not everybody acting in the national interest even when they should.

[Muadib]

"It's never and easy time to lead Jamaica"

LOL !!

The PNP only mek it LOOK hard..

And yuh fall fi it hook line and sinker... (playing along with your 'non-partisan' charade)

Is nuff man 'born again' since 2007...

LOL !!

[wbvs]

Bloomberg News, sent from my iPhone.

Norway’s Premier Wins Re-Election, First in 16 Years

Sept. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Norwegian Labor Party Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg became the first leader in 16 years to win re-election after steering the Nordic nation out of a recession and vowing to improve welfare.

Labor and its partners, the Socialist Left and the Center Party, secured 86 seats out of 169 seats in parliament, after 99.9 percent of the votes were counted. The opposition, fronted by the Progress Party and Conservative Party, won 83 mandates.

Stoltenberg, 50, the first premier re-elected since his mentor Gro Harlem Brundtland won a second term in 1993, spent a record of Norway’s $430 billion petroleum wealth this year to revive the economy and keep unemployment at the lowest in Europe. Voters rejected the oppositions’ calls for tax cuts.

“It looks like the sitting government will be re- elected,” said Johannes Bergh, a political scientist at the Institute for Social Research in Oslo. “It’s quite unusual and a great victory for the Labor Party.”

Labor won 64 seats, up from 61 in 2005. The Socialist Left fell 4 seats to 11 and the Center Party kept its 11 mandates. The Progress Party gained 3 to 41 seats and the Conservatives surged 7 to 30 seats. The Liberals dropped 8 to 2 seats and the Christian Democrats declined 1 to 10 seats.

“We’re three parties who have worked together for four years, so we have a lot of issues in common,” Stoltenberg said in a televised interview yesterday. “I’m confident we will find common solutions.”

Social Benefits

Stoltenberg has promised to keep taxes stable and spend more money on elderly care as the party strives for full employment. Finance Minister Kristin Halvorsen’s Socialist Left vowed to stop an expansion of oil and gas exploration in environmentally sensitive areas in northern Norway and the Center Party promised to spend more on roads and railways.

“It’s more about what you don’t get than what you get,” Stein Bruun, chief economist at SEB Enskilda ASA in Oslo, said in an interview today. “You’re not getting lower taxes, you’re not getting privatization of state holdings and you’re not getting competition in some sectors.”

Norway struck oil in the North Sea 40 years ago, making the country the world’s second-richest nation per capita after Luxembourg, with a 2008 budget surplus of about 20 percent of gross domestic product. The wealth has posed problems for successive governments in juggling demands for spending and tax cuts, while keeping the economy from overheating.

Milder Recession

Norway emerged from a recession last quarter after a milder slump than its Nordic neighbors, spurred by investments in its oil industry and stimulus measures. The government proposed spending 130 billion kroner ($22 billion) on the stimulus package this year, the biggest in more than three decades.

The so-called mainland economy, which excludes oil and gas, will grow 2.5 percent next year after shrinking 1.5 percent this year, the central bank forecasts. The bank cut interest rates to a record 1.25 percent and signaled in August that rates may rise earlier than previously predicted as a recovery starts.

The result is “a sign that people think that the government has handled the crisis well”, said Erik Bruce, senior economist at Nordea Bank AB in Oslo. “It shows that people appreciate the work the government has done.”

Tax Cuts

The Conservative Party and Progress Party both advocated tax cuts while also promising to improve education and elderly care. The Progress Party, led by Siv Jensen, posted its best result since it was formed as an anti-tax movement in 1973, cementing its spot as the largest opposition party.

The Conservatives, lead by Erna Solberg, 48, gained the most even as she failed in her bid to become the first female premier in 13 years.

Stoltenberg first became premier in 2000 after a vote of no-confidence ousted a Christian Democrat-led government. One year later his party had its worst election since 1924.

He returned in 2005 with the current coalition, Norway’s first majority government in 20 years. They ousted a bloc of Conservatives, Christian Democrats and Liberals by vowing to spend more on health and education and rolling back some of the 23.5 billion kroner in tax cuts in the prior four years.

To contact the reporter on this story: Josiane Kremer in Oslo at Jkremer4@bloomberg.net .

Find out more about Bloomberg for iPhone: http://bbiphone.bloomberg.com/iphone

IT seems like the Socialist party of France and the Nordic
countries will never die .

[Don1]

Again it is not easy to lead any country in this time.

Well that is one man's view. It is not easy to be nationalistic when everybody around you is tribal. Obama is a prime example, at some stage if you want things done you have to act in your own interest.

Take Bruce Golding crime plan for example. It may not be perfect but the PNP agreed on it publicly and then turn around and kill it in committees. Take Obama healtcare for example, he want it passed and the Republicans saying if it pass without them he will never get any support from them on anything else.

You can only try but not everybody acting in the national interest even when they should.

You do not understand Jamaica's parliamentary system. It is not the same as the American system ...we have very few checks and balances compared with the US system and very few "special interest" pressure groups ...except for the big businessmen (largely in the JLP camp) and a couple unions...whose power is declining.

Golding has relatively FAR more power in our system than Obama does in the US Congress. Golding has a relatively free hand to do as he pleases within the law.
He may want PNP support for some measure but he doesn't REQUIRE it in the least..

It is NOT possible for the PNP to "kill" any JLP proposal in committee or in a House or Senate vote outside of a constitutional amendment or some issue requiring a 2/3 majority.
All they need usually is a simple majority which they ALWAYS have because everyone votes party line... in the US the legislators do not slavishly follow the party line... BIG DIFFERENCE.

Jamaica is a very small & uncomplicated pond..with 1 big fish.

[Don1]

"It's never and easy time to lead Jamaica"

LOL !!

The PNP only mek it LOOK hard..

And yuh fall fi it hook line and sinker... (playing along with your 'non-partisan' charade)

Is nuff man 'born again' since 2007...

LOL !!

The usual & expected tribal drivel.

[Assasin]

Who must I believe on that? Golding said he couldn't pass the crime bill without the opposition support and various others said the same.

I don't know what if it is a constitutional matter but I will stick to what is in the public domain.

[Muadib]

Unfortunately some critical fundamental changes required DO require PNP support...

The aggressive plans Bruce had required 2/3 majority for rapid execution.. not only did he not get this but the slim majority has been under constant challenge for the last 2 years thanks to the dual citizenship ploy of the power mad PNP.. once again sacrificing the country for their own ends..

Dis PNP cockroach hard fi kill babah... Ah Wha Suh !!!??

[1of1]

its never easy to lead, I nuh play ease up pon nuh politician, in a time of crisis people bawl more and are more in need, hence shower man dem a bawl power man dema bawl, everybody a bawl, If Portia did win di election dem woulda a bawl an a cuss same way, some man can talk caa dem nahh feel it, Bruce a lead, the seat hot but hush, du suppen Bruce, du suppen portia, do suppen governmenty do suppen opposition
duh suppen all a oonu politician, befor suppen duh oonu

[Don1]

Unfortunately some critical fundamental changes required DO require PNP support...

The aggressive plans Bruce had required 2/3 majority for rapid execution.. not only did he not get this but the slim majority has been under constant challenge for the last 2 years thanks to the dual citizenship ploy of the power mad PNP.. once again sacrificing the country for their own ends..

Dis PNP cockroach hard fi kill babah... Ah Wha Suh !!!??

Ok tribalist..what specific issues required the Opposition's support? NAME SOME.

Assasin mentioned crime measures...did those require Opposition votes to pass?

I already said that constitutional changes...embedded or not.. require a 2/3 majority...what apart from those measures ...proposed by the JLP required support from the PNP?


What are these so called fundamental changes that the PNP blocked?

As usual you are blowing smoke to try disguise the continued ineptitude.

Try fi fool smaddy else.

[Don1]

Who must I believe on that? Golding said he couldn't pass the crime bill without the opposition support and various others said the same.

I don't know what if it is a constitutional matter but I will stick to what is in the public domain.

Believe the Constitution of Jamaica...the supreme law.

You don't have to follow what some guy writes in a newspaper..or in a forum.

[Assasin]

The crime plan in brief

(1) Amend law to allow a person to be detained for up to 72 hours without being charged once authorised by a police officer at the level of assistant commissioner or higher.
(2) Refuse bail for serious crimes and repeat offenders for the first 60 days with provision for the prosecution to appeal against granting bail.
(3) Right to non-invasive DNA, such as a mouth swab from a person charged with an offence.
(4) Establish a DNA database
(5) Amend evidence act to allow for witnesses to provide testimony via videotape. This system could provide protection for witnesses.
(6)Provide for majority verdict in non-capital murder. The law would be amended to allow for conviction by a minimum of nine out of 12 jurors.

Here the law needed ammendment which needed support of the opposition.

[Don1]

The crime plan in brief

(1) Amend law to allow a person to be detained for up to 72 hours without being charged once authorised by a police officer at the level of assistant commissioner or higher.
(2) Refuse bail for serious crimes and repeat offenders for the first 60 days with provision for the prosecution to appeal against granting bail.
(3) Right to non-invasive DNA, such as a mouth swab from a person charged with an offence.
(4) Establish a DNA database
(5) Amend evidence act to allow for witnesses to provide testimony via videotape. This system could provide protection for witnesses.
(6)Provide for majority verdict in non-capital murder. The law would be amended to allow for conviction by a minimum of nine out of 12 jurors.

Here the law needed ammendment which needed support of the opposition.

If the GOJ seeks to promulgate any law which will permanently curtail the fundamental freedom of Jamaicans, such a measure may indeed require a 3/5 majority in Parliament.
If that is the case the GOJ would indeed require the support of some members of the Opposition.
Should support be given in light of the likelyhood of abuse?

Certain questions arise:

1. Is the measure justifiable..i.e. will it rectify the problem? In my opinion it won't. Crime plans are merely PR ...they NEVER work on a sustained basis.
The GOJ needs to attack the root of the crime problem and stop dealing with this as a mere security issue....it is a DEVELOPMENT issue.

In view of our sorry record of police and judicial abuse of poor people, measures increasing police powers will tend to worsen the crime situation over time...not ameliorate it....in my opinion.

2. Was there adequate consultation with the Opposition to ensure they understood the GOJ's position?

3. If the GOJ felt that curtailing fundamental freedoms was vital..they always have the option of seeking public support..take the issue on the road...outflank the Opposition by putting public pressure on them while educating people about what they plan to do.
Did they do this? Or do they only take issues to the public around election time to seek cheap votes?

Our stupid politicians reap what they sow.... tribalism and partisanship. One can't promote tribalism and stupidity and then expect the other side to respond with anything different....the Rear Admiral is a case in point.

Leadership must come from the top....unfortunately so far it has not emerged.

[Assasin]

Sometime you must listen too.

If you read my post again you will see that the both parties consulted and agree on it in the public domain and the PNP backtrack.

there is no secret about this.

[Don1]

Sometime you must listen too.

If you read my post again you will see that the both parties consulted and agree on it in the public domain and the PNP backtrack.

there is no secret about this.

I don't know what was agreed to...and what was then proposed by the GOJ. I'm sure one side will say A and the other B.

You may choose to believe the JLP position....my position is that I don't know enuff to be sure who or what to believe. We have seen these 2 tribes argue for 20+ years about republican status which they both claim to support...but can't agree on the needed constitutional amendments....which tribe do you blame for that?
Both.

My general point is since Golding knows he has to seek the PNP's support on specific measures he wants and since he has rightfully & publicly acknowledged that the PNP has to be involved in solutions to the nation's problems.....

.....It is therefore stupid and counterproductive for him to encourage tribalism. Promoting nonsense like "termites" "bangarang" etc..... play well with his tribal base...we see the Rear Admiral and such tribalists using these terms with gay (LOL!) abandon.

However all this does is get the other side's sycophants riled up...making cooperation next to impossible.

That's not leadership....that stupidity.