What Manley dem nevah waan si inna Jamaica

[Jawge]

Heh, heh. I see you have some points but you keep accusing me of idolatry. Had i asked you about Churchill or Shakespeare; you would shower (no pun here) me with some illustrious praise of them (devoid of flaws).

I was just citing the good Joshua done. I've already said many times on this board that it was because of Joshua's naivety and poor advisors (which UWI cannot escape without blame here). You are very naive if you think JA will progress without bringing the economic elite on board. Ja needs a leader that can reason and show them (elite) the doom that is impending. This leader has to have the ability to then show thaem why it's vital in the info age to have quality human resources (they will have happier climate and more wealth; hey! a fact of life).

On the US being manipulative: You can't blame them; they are an empire looking out for their strategic interest (ancient Egypt would have done the same, so did Britian). It's because of our low rate in human resources why we ended up at quarrell with the US, when it was in the height of a cold war. When should I stop crying for a School of history and political science?

BTW did I say Joshua was without flaw?

[Jawge]

Ben please don't insult me, okay I can play your game.
I know you were born by then: Have you ever heard of the SEABED initiative? Look that up and psot it.

Ben, deeds not words is what I'm dealing with here, okay. Thanks.
BTW mi nuh tell yuh say class done fi di day? Cho.

[Muadib]

Jawge, I don't have to insult you.

You insult yourself everytime you post.

Manley did not have the patent on 'Social Projects', he just did not understand the concept of someone having to pay for it... or maybe he did not care.. him did get what him want... Adulation to stroke his large Ego...

LOL !!

[Muadib]

Blasphemy !!!

[Don1]

Heh, heh. I see you have some points but you keep accusing me of idolatry. Had i asked you about Churchill or Shakespeare; you would shower (no pun here) me with some illustrious praise of them (devoid of flaws).

I was just citing the good Joshua done. I've already said many times on this board that it was because of Joshua's naivety and poor advisors (which UWI cannot escape without blame here). You are very naive if you think JA will progress without bringing the economic elite on board. Ja needs a leader that can reason and show them (elite) the doom that is impending. This leader has to have the ability to then show thaem why it's vital in the info age to have quality human resources (they will have happier climate and more wealth; hey! a fact of life).

On the US being manipulative: You can't blame them; they are an empire looking out for their strategic interest (ancient Egypt would have done the same, so did Britian). It's because of our low rate in human resources why we ended up at quarrell with the US, when it was in the height of a cold war. When should I stop crying for a School of history and political science?

BTW did I say Joshua was without flaw?

I am beginning to understand the reason your posts attract either merriment or mystification.

[Jawge]

Okay so here's more: You seem to leave out the fact that JA was also being manipulated by the then Soviet empire (via its proxy). We were essentially children trying our hands at the game of adults. JA should take steps never to be caught again in regional politics, becuase we haven't the resources nor the time.

It's interesting to note that you haven't given your thoughts on Ja's inability to change bauxite into metal. I would like to hear your views on that subject. Thanks.

[Don1]

Okay so here's more: You seem to leave out the fact that JA was also being manipulated by the then Soviet empire (via its proxy). We were essentially children trying our hands at the game of adults. JA should take steps never to be caught again in regional politics, becuase we haven't the resources nor the time.

Every leader has to take ownership of the circumstances and environment surrounding their administration.
At no time is blaming this or that person or country for our problems a solution nor is it even helpful.... neither for Manley in the 1970's...just as it is unacceptable for Golding to do now.

A leader's job is to lead..not complain about obstacles or problems...leave that nonsense for the braying sycophants...examples of which we see on this forum.

Fact is..well meaning as he was..Manley mishandled the environment he was presented with...leading us one step forward and 2 steps back...because he did not sufficiently consider those backward elements opposed to the necessary changes...and he focused too much on confrontational politics...quite destructive & unnecessary.
Jamaica needs consultation & consensus...not confrontation.

It's interesting to note that you haven't given your thoughts on Ja's inability to change bauxite into metal. I would like to hear your views on that subject. Thanks.

In economics there is a guiding development principle called comparative advantage.

Given the enormous energy required to convert bauxite ore into aluminium...Jamaica being an energy poor country, does not have a comparative advantage in producing metal.
Going to some extreme lengths to do this conversion absent an energy advantage, is myopic thinking....other energy rich countries will ALWAYS outperform us in aluminium production...so the venture will generally not be economic...although it may look good to the naive.

Jamaica needs to concentrate on technical human resource development, agriculture, tourism, logistics and exporting our culture with adequate intellectual property controls.

Those are areas where can create comparative advantage and be successful as a nation...not metal production unfortunately.

[Muadib]

A strong breeze will blow away that argument..

[Jawge]

Lets look at this quote:Jamaica needs to concentrate on technical human resource development, agriculture, tourism, logistics and exporting our culture with adequate intellectual property controls.

Those are areas where can create comparative advantage and be successful as a nation...not metal production unfortunately.
I'm inclined to think the above would apply to the info age and not to
late 60s-70s (height of the industrial age). BTW we are dead in the water with agriculture I hope Don get his supercomputers to model our land space ratio to productive output, then compare it to that of other countries. Tourism is going to get leaner and meaner, right now all inclusive is burning us .I hope the computers can show Brucie by modelling that a 400 room capacity hotel; is putting ware and tear on our municipal resources without any compesation. In the long run not helping our economy excpet for the immediate owners.

Come again.

Let me ask you this: Does Germany has oil? Japan, China et al how are they able to to turn raw material into finished goods and sell to make profit? Are you saying that Ja has the expertise but's only enegry that's stopping Ja?

[Don1]

I'm inclined to think the above would apply to the info age and not to
late 60s-70s (height of the industrial age). BTW we are dead in the water with agriculture

You are dead wrong where agriculture is concerned...unless you like to eat computers..I don't.

I hope Don get his supercomputers to model our land space ratio to productive output, then compare it to that of other countries.

You are a confused young man.

Tourism is going to get leaner and meaner, right now all inclusive is burning us .I hope the computers can show Brucie by modelling that a 400 room capacity hotel; is putting ware and tear on our municipal resources without any compesation. In the long run not helping our economy excpet for the immediate owners.

Do you have a viable alternative to tourism? What? Supercomputers, IT?? Get real. I think you need some remodeling yourself. You need to get out from in front of the screen (matrix) and enter the real world most of us live in.

Let me ask you this: Does Germany has oil? Japan, China et al how are they able to to turn raw material into finished goods and sell to make profit? Are you saying that Ja has the expertise but's only enegry that's stopping Ja?

[/QUOTE]

You ask some disjointed questions so there is no answer that I can give to this...suffice it to say you could do with a basic economics course..maybe the Rear Admiral can assist... I hear he is currently seeking such a course of study.

[Jawge]

On agriculture: You were speaking about exportation. Yes?

Did you read what Don said about modeling? How do you propose it to be done? Your laptop or home PC?

You may not believe this but Ja would benefit with having a huge percetange of its workforce well trained in IT, than building massive hotels that in turn put srain in all manner on the island.

I see you have low expectations for the people of JA. Farming and Tourism (the present path of least resistance) is your vision of Ja's future.

Chicken is already coming to roost: read how Don was hampered and ineffective because of lacking the tools of the info age.

Boss cut out the name calling and cussing; deal with the issues. It's unhealthy.

[Muadib]

Jawge, there is a country with the land size of St. James.

It is a Globlal leader in the export of Orchids...

It is all about value add and niche Jawge.. matters not the raw material...

Why would you rule out Agricultural raw material ?

[Willi]

Very balanced response.

Impressive.

All except the dark blue college reference. Lighten up di blue man! LoL

[Mosiah]

I enjoyed attendance at a College...not a high school. I apologize or explain myself to no guy for that.
The fact of my attendance at that particular, progressive College has enhanced, not hindered by understanding and empathy for people not as fortunate to have the same opportunity....you may be one....who knows?

But yuh wrenk! Good ting mi go better school!

[Don1]

On agriculture: You were speaking about exportation. Yes?

Did you read what Don said about modeling? How do you propose it to be done? Your laptop or home PC?

You may not believe this but Ja would benefit with having a huge percetange of its workforce well trained in IT, than building massive hotels that in turn put srain in all manner on the island.

I see you have low expectations for the people of JA. Farming and Tourism (the present path of least resistance) is your vision of Ja's future.

Chicken is already coming to roost: read how Don was hampered and ineffective because of lacking the tools of the info age.

Boss cut out the name calling and cussing; deal with the issues. It's unhealthy.

Ok go ahead and train everyone in IT if you like.

People should be trained in IT up to the point where it is economically viable to do so. Does eveyone in India do IT? No...they have a strong IT sector. Jamaica should similarly have a strong IT sector.

Farming is VITAL for food security #1 and secondly import substitution/export. Jamaica should not depend on foreigners to feed her...you never know when that will be cut off.

You seem to see this IT as a panacea...it is not. One cannot put all one's eggs in one basket..it's not wise.

Tourism needs to be restructured to spread the benefits..yes! But that means providing a safe environment for our people first..then visitors second.
Until that happens the benefits will remain almost entirely with the hoteliers thru their all inclusives...I don't think they mind that at all.

btw...who is this Don you keep referring to...nuh mi ah di one Don?